Hot from the mailbox... 10/20 PMAGS!

[dieselpower]

Thanks for the input brothers but I did some research on "altering" a fixed mag and found out that if I put the mag back together without re-riveting + glue, I would have just made a 10 round magazine that is "alterable". Defining it as illegal although it would still only hold ten rounds even with the limiter! The laws are so dubious I can't seem to get a straight answer and I certainly don't want to ask a LEO because even they don't know the details! Well, I guess I'm just gonna have to sell them for what I paid for them minus the shipping cost and do what "shooperman" and "Wicked k5" said, is buy them with the plates already installed. I'll posting them up for sale later this evening if one of you guys are interested. I'm in Glendale and down for a FTF. Peace

Thats only one way to look at it. The other side of the coin looks different and we argue over this once or twice a week...We say, "If the limiting device is on the inside, the magazine IS already a 10rd magazine." There is no law against the length, or width of a 10rd magazine. Only the number of rounds it holds. So you bought a 10rd magazine with a long body. You must disassemble it and reassemble it in order to break the law. I own a semi-automatic rifle (AR15). I know how to disassemble it and reassemble it into a fully automatic firearm by leaving out a part...that doesn't make the semiautomatic rifle illegal. Once you disassemble a magazine, you have a pile of parts. The charge filed against you must be "manufacturing"... which means reassembling illegally (leaving out the limiting device.) There is no charge, "failing to seal" or "failure to make the limiter permanent."

YMMV, do what you think is best.

[Aldo The Apache]

Thats only one way to look at it. The other side of the coin looks different and we argue over this once or twice a week...We say, "If the limiting device is on the inside, the magazine IS already a 10rd magazine." There is no law against the length, or width of a 10rd magazine. Only the number of rounds it holds. So you bought a 10rd magazine with a long body. You must disassemble it and reassemble it in order to break the law. I own a semi-automatic rifle (AR15). I know how to disassemble it and reassemble it into a fully automatic firearm by leaving out a part...that doesn't make the semiautomatic rifle illegal. Once you disassemble a magazine, you have a pile of parts. The charge filed against you must be "manufacturing"... which means reassembling illegally (leaving out the limiting device.) There is no charge, "failing to seal" or "failure to make the limiter permanent."

YMMV, do what you think is best.

I totally understand that logic, believe me, I do but what's the law is not always that simple to understand. And yes, she do have a big booty LoL! I've been thinking about just dremeling out the rivets, install the ranger plates and reinstall the rivets. Simple and I guess legal. I want no fuzz after my girls' big booty LoL. Thanks for your input!

[Quiet]

Since vendors do not acquire the large capacity magazines as parts but as large capacity magazines and then they permanently modify them to 10 rounds, they ensure that they are following the letter of the law by riveting/epoxying those magazines. [PC 16740(a)]


Penal Code 16740
As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

[dieselpower]

Since vendors do not acquire the large capacity magazines as parts but as large capacity magazines and then they permanently modify them to 10 rounds, they ensure that they are following the letter of the law by riveting/epoxying those magazines. [PC 16740(a)]


Penal Code 16740
As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

and away we go......

Then please link where a law says riveting and epoxy is permanent. The law says a plug installed limits shotgun rounds. Thats the only law on how to legally limit magazine capacity. It says nothing about making it permanent. Even if it did, I can drill a rivet or cut epoxy...therefore, both of those are not permanent.

The DoJ said "permanently altered doesn't equal irreversible" and "any act to reverse the limiting is illegal." With these two statements, which our side has posted a thousand times, it proves drilling a rivet and/or removing a plug ARE THE SAME THING. No matter how you do it, its illegal.

By their logic, the magazine is illegal with the rivets....rivets are not permanent.

By our logic 0 rivets = 1.5 million rivets or 1 ton of steel...the DoJ said...any reversal is illegal. The ILLEGAL act is manufacturing.... You must have

[Aldo The Apache]

and away we go......

Then please link where a law says riveting and epoxy is permanent. The law says a plug installed limits shotgun rounds. Thats the only law on how to legally limit magazine capacity. It says nothing about making it permanent. Even if it did, I can drill a rivet or cut epoxy...therefore, both of those are not permanent.

The DoJ said "permanently altered doesn't equal irreversible" and "any act to reverse the limiting is illegal." With these two statements, which our side has posted a thousand times, it proves drilling a rivet and/or removing a plug ARE THE SAME THING. No matter how you do it, its illegal.

By their logic, the magazine is illegal with the rivets....rivets are not permanent.

By our logic 0 rivets = 1.5 million rivets or 1 ton of steel...the DoJ said...any reversal is illegal. The ILLEGAL act is manufacturing.... You must have

^+1! I agree with you all the way brother. I have done quite a bit of research and all of it is here say. I have yet to find something, anything, that says the magazine, even with a limiter, must be riveted and or epoxied for it to hold its "permanent stage". If ANYONE can share with us the appropriate link that states, indefinitely, the topic of discussion and put us in our place. So far I haven't seen anything in any forums that has rock solid proof of such law. God bless America!

[finyllw]

It doesn't matter what the law says or doesn't say. It's what the officer "thinks" the law is. If we keep going, it's then the judge and jury who will decide your fate, and frankly, in my opinion, there are a lot of dumbazzes out there who don't like people who have guns and especially ones that have been "modified".

[Aldo The Apache]

Bump. Peoples of calguns, show me the proof!

[Eric_Oh]

Watching for more input from the rest...

[dieselpower]

It doesn't matter what the law says or doesn't say. It's what the officer "thinks" the law is. If we keep going, it's then the judge and jury who will decide your fate, and frankly, in my opinion, there are a lot of dumbazzes out there who don't like people who have guns and especially ones that have been "modified".

+1. Thats why I ended my post "YMMV, do what you think is best."

The issue rests on which side of this debate the Officer is on. Two years ago few, if any, LEO would have agreed with us, Now I think many are coming around. They read here too. Several current LEO read these forum and are AGAINST this interpretation...so be mindful of that.

Bump. Peoples of calguns, show me the proof!

There is no proof either way. What is indecent? Its a definition defended by a jury...it all starts with an Officer, then moves to a DA...then to a jury for the final say. You will not get a hard fast rule on this. Kinda sucks because if you get a liberal jury...not one of your peers... you could lose your 2A rights for 12 years (or is it 14?)

Watching for more input from the rest...

no need to watch this...do a search or wait till the next thread...happens once a week.

[chrisf]

Nice.

[Aldo The Apache]

BTT. I guess what I'll do is dremel out the rivet, install the ranger plate and press another rivet underneath it or through it. I found a rivet gun with a bunch of rivets on amazon for dirt cheap. I'll need anyway to service the mag when dirty.

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-6555-Rivet-40-pc-Rivets/dp/B000NPT74C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332522362&sr=8-2