anti gun youtube video

[vikingm03]

Hey everyone.

I was surfing youtube and found this video (posted 6 days ago) of a person questioning if individuals have the right to carry firearms. His video is not very good, but the comments show he does not like firearms ownership one bit!

Anyway, i have responded multiple times, hopefully i have shown my opinion on the matter in a respectful manner their responses sure dont show that.

Feel free to respond with your own opinions on "Owning a gun, a firearm is not a civil right."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuGKm4uWH0

[G60]

lol it's john goodman's youtube channel

[pyromensch]

he sounds australian, and they have no gun rights, anymore, so what the hell is he talking about...terrorists?
if he is in the US, talking this way, he can always go back, to where they have no rights

[cdtx2001]

Here was my response:

If they did not have a gun, they would have used a knife. If they did not have a knife they would have used a stick. If they did not have a stick they would have used a rock. My point is you cannot stop a person that wants to hurt or kill an innocent person. The only thing you can do now is enable the innocent person to defend themselves. If that means meeting violence with a equal or greater violence, so be it. We have the right to defend ourselves no matter what.

[G60]

Don't forget to click dislike folks. More effective than comments.

[jgraham7897]

My response.

For a hypothetical situations there is not a lot of info. What was the perceived threat? Where did the shooting take place? There are all kinds of variables here that could change the answer to your question.

[vikingm03]

Here is my full debate, or maybe childish arguing is a better term with the responses i get, so far:

ME:
To answer your question: if someone commits any serious crime they loose their right to keep and bear arms.
Criminals will not obey any laws, otherwise "Don't commit any crimes" would be a law.
While gun laws will not prevent any crimes from occurring, as criminals don't care what the law says, they do stop the law biding from having any protection for self and for family. I cherish my life dearly, and I believe I (and fellow law abiding citizens) have the right to self defence in all places.



ThePositiveAussie:
Using your uncritical thinking then we should just get rid of every law because "Criminals will not obey any laws".
LAWLESSNESS IS YOUR DEFENCE AGAINST CRIME?! LOL
"While gun laws will not prevent any crimes from occurring..."
They're just their to stop criminals having guns. Hard one that...
"they do stop the law biding from having any protection for self and for family"
No ones saying "law abiding" people can't protect themselves, what a strawman.
Go sit in the corner dunce.



ME:
Its so nice of you to respond in such a respectful manner...
"LAWLESSNESS IS YOUR DEFENCE AGAINST CRIME?! "
Dont put words in my mouth. Laws are in place so that you can punish those who have committed a crime.
"They're just their to stop criminals having guns...."
The Laws here are either completely ineffective or far more damaging to the law abiding owner's rights. How can you make a law to stop someone from getting a gun who actively breaks the law?
continued

"No ones saying "law abiding" people can't protect themselves, what a strawman."
Thats what the author of this video (franks2732) is saying. People do have the right to defend their lives in public spaces using the appropriate defence tools. Thus guns are the tools to a human right, and should be protected not banned, unless you can magically get rid of all crime and corruption in the world...



ThePositiveAussie:
"How can you make a law to stop someone from getting a gun who actively breaks the law?"
Lets keep that lawless lover of freedom idea and expand on it.
We remove drink driving laws? Because you can't stop those drunks from driving.
Drugs? Can't stop those crims selling crack to school kids can we?
Want me to stop? Sorry can't do that having too much fun with you.
As an ex-infantry soldier I understand very well that most people should not have access to a rifle or gun. FULL STOP!



ME:
Lol, you try and say i used a strawman argument then you respond with the very definition of a strawman argument...
Like i said before, laws are good, they give the ability to unbiasedly punish those who have committed crimes. Stop putting words in my mouth.
"Want me to stop?"
not really, anyone reading your comments should be able to pick up that you fail at debating and resort to belittling your opponent since you clearly cant defend against his argument.



franks2732:
Owning a gun, a firearm is not a civil right. Only one nation on earth has laws which enshrine 'gun ownership' and if the law is taken in context it has nothing to do with what some Americans believe it to mean. Regulation of firearms is common sense. Who really needs an AK47? More people per capita may own firearms in Canada but ****ing getting one is not a walk into the local supermarket.



ME:
I know, i am from that one nation. It is also not a law, it is a Constitutional right of the people. We know what it means taken in context. Basic screening of buyers is fine, but banning of entire categories of firearms and their defensive use in public is not fine.
I dont own an ak, but i do own an ar15, another scary looking gun im sure you wouldn't approve of. I dont see why i shouldn't have it.
Finally, there are many laws to follow when buying a firearm here in the states. (Note, i really wanted to expand on this comment, and many others, but youtube limits the comment length )



ThePositiveAussie:
You did say it and you're a disingenuous fool to deny it. (Note: im not sure what he is talking about here, what is "it"?)
Quoting you; " they do stop the law biding from having any protection for self and for family"..." I believe I (and fellow law abiding citizens) have the right to self defence in all places."
You've gone from, we shouldn't have gun laws because criminals don't obey the law, to public spaces should be the wild west where gun toting "law abiding people" like you salivate for the chance to shoot it out with the bad guys.



ME:
Keep trying to attack me personally, it only makes you look like the little man here.
I have never said we shouldn't have gun laws, you continue to put words in my mouth.
Criminals DONT obey gun laws, are you really going to argue otherwise?
Here in the US we are seeing a re-emergence of gun rights, followed by historic lows in violent crime, so giving the law abiding a means to defend themselves seems to be working for us. Stop using your fear tactics, they dont work.



ThePositiveAussie:
You're asleep mate.



ME:
Im wide awake, and want my human right to self defence.




Thats it so far, i've had lots of fun too! Also, sorry for the wall of text.

[cdtx2001]

I would try to debate this guy more, however I've always heard that it's not wise to have a battle of wits against an unarmed person. They'll drag you down to their level and kick the crap outta you.

It's not worth my time.

[SanPedroShooter]

Geez, after watching this, I am going to lobby my congresscritter to suspend or deny my God given right to the defense of my life and property.... Its to bad the US cant understand that an authoritarian nanny state is the right way to force and coerce people into behaving themselves. Wake me up when you get your balls and freedom back....

The internet has taught me a valuable lesson. Never try and explain or argue for US Constitutional freedom with foreigners. They dont understand, and they seem to revel in their bondage and dependance on big government to protect them from themselves...

The US really is exceptional. Thats why 0bama's vision of quasi-european socialism is so frightening. When Polisi said she was going to bring "San Francisco values to the rest of the nation" (or something like that) you could hear the shudder from Las Vegas to Richmond....

[hypnoman]

it is truly sad to see fearful victims seeking "protection" through laws to ban this and that. They don't see that the majority of crimes with firearms happened with firearms in the hands of a criminal who had no rights to firearms.

laws offer no protection from criminals (by definition). laws can not protect a victim who will not pick up a gun (legally) to protect himself and is foolish enough to prevent his neighbors from doing so, too.

[SuperSet]

YouTube is wonderful for creating and sharing content. It sucks as a platform for thoughtful debate. Usually, I just remove stupid comments from my channel. I'd copy them here for your enjoyment but wasn't forward thinking enough to save them at the time.

[vikingm03]

I would try to debate this guy more, however I've always heard that it's not wise to have a battle of wits against an unarmed person. They'll drag you down to their level and kick the crap outta you.

It's not worth my time.

I tried my best not to bend to his level.

I dont really care if i cant change his mind, its the people who watch his video and read the comments that i wanted to reach.

[2shotjoe]

link is bad

[vikingm03]

YouTube is wonderful for creating and sharing content. It sucks as a platform for thoughtful debate. Usually, I just remove stupid comments from my channel. I'd copy them here for your enjoyment but wasn't forward thinking enough to save them at the time.

Agreed that youtube sucks for debates, but i really wanted to show how flawed the "ban all guns" crowd is to the people who find that video.

[r3dn3ck]

I didn't think it appropriate to even bother beginning the debate with him.

My feelings on the matter were well expressed in the existing comments:

""What if" is not an argument in favor or against any position. It's the beginning of an analytical thought process but you seem to stop thinking at the close of any sentence starting with "what if". How about you start thinking right after such sentences and see if the quality of your argument doesn't improve."