I wanted to ask...

[SJgunguy24]

I was DROSing a sig 522 yesterday and my FFL was talking to me and said that he needs to check the firearm for any ammo or high cap mags and that if they were left in there after a customer leaves that he would have to confiscate them.

is this true?

No it's not true, that would be called theft though. Just because the mags hold more then 10 rounds doesn't mean he can steal them. Those can be turned into 10 round mags if factory 10's are not avaliable.

If the FFL doesn't have a high capacity magazine permit it might be a concern.

Irrelevent, any FFL can take possession of a high cap mag, they cannot import or sell without a permit. The customer has 2 options if their gun has high caps, block to 10 rounds, or rebuilds.
Lets say you ppt a handgun, a glock 17 we'll say. The only mags the buyer has are high caps that are 20 years old and he leaves one with the gun to do the safety demo. He can take that mag with him when he picks up the gun because it's his property. If the ffl keeps the mag, he's guilty of a crime.

[CHS]

I would agree for a bullet button gun, since not having a mag makes the capacity of the rifle somewhat undefined.

For other guns I think it's nonsense.

Are you really a dealer? Do you deal in handguns and know anything about the safe handling demonstration? You are required by law to perform the safe handling demonstration with the purchaser of a handgun. If the handgun comes with no mags, how are you going to perform the safe handling demonstration without violating the law?

My question to the OP is how he miraculously has "pre-ban" magazines for a gun that never existed "pre-ban". The same goes for people "rebuilding" high cap mags for S&W M&P pistols.

I think it is irresponsible of the OP to bring an illegally obtained magazine to his FFL's range and would understand why the FFL would not want to "deliver" an illegal magazine regardless who paid for it.

Maybe if he keeps it you can take him to court and ask for your illegal stuff back.

I think you might need to go back to school.

The Sig 522 uses standard Ciener-compatible .22lr magazines for AR15 conversions. These large-capacity magazines have been around for a very long time. They have been around since before the CA LCM ban and before the Federal AWB. I should know, I own a ton of them.

The Ciener followers are compatible with black-dog machine magazines, which are the same magazines that the Sig 522 ships with. You can either use your pre-ban Cieners with the Sig 522, or rebuild them into Black-Dog Machine mags (which is what I've done with all of mine, for example. They are nicer, more reliable mags than the Cieners).

If you're going to be a dealer in this state, please learn the law and stop spreading FUD. Thanks.

[CHS]

I would agree for a bullet button gun, since not having a mag makes the capacity of the rifle somewhat undefined.

Seriously????!

Ok. A semi-automatic centerfire rifle with or without features, with a bullet button installed DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT a detachable magazine. Period. It does not matter if there is actually a magazine in the firearm or not. And the size (capacity) of said nonexistent magazine matters not either. The fact that the capacity of the rifle is undefined makes absolutely no legal difference whatsoever.

Will someone please send this shop a truckload of flowcharts?

[jgraham7897]

i think i sort of confused you guys, my bad!

ok so here the situation:

i DROSed a rifle in a ppt at my FFL. the gun had no mags just the rifle. Now, i have pre ban high cap mags that i brought with me to shoot the gun during the 10 day wait (my dealer lets me do this at their range). after shooting the rifle, i put it back into the case but leave the pre ban high cap mags in there and handed over the case for storage.

now can my FFL take those mags from the bag if he were to open it later or when i pick up the rifle?

Just curious...Why would you leave them and put yourself in this position in the first place?

[USMC 82-86]

If this was a free state this would not be a discussion. That is my thoughts on the matter.

[hcbr]

Thus why i meet before we do the PPT and he gives me all the mags and goodies that are questionable (i.e. getting dismantled mags before ppt)

[Stormfeather]

This thread has vendor fail ALL over it.

[dwtt]

This thread has vendor fail ALL over it.

This sounds like Montana Hawk north of Petaluma. They threatened to confiscate my pistol that I was PPTing there and send it to the CA DOJ for destruction if I didn't pass the background check. I wasn't surprised to see them go out of business a year later.

[lorax3]

Well, I'd say you are not allowed to lend them large-capacity magazines if you leave the premises. They cannot give you large-capacity magazines unless you are LEO or otherwise exempt. If you only have large-capacity magazines for your handgun for some reason, do the waiting period without them, bring them in when you do the safety demo.

[Hakoomay]

The Sig 522 uses standard Ciener-compatible .22lr magazines for AR15 conversions. These large-capacity magazines have been around for a very long time. They have been around since before the CA LCM ban and before the Federal AWB. I should know, I own a ton of them.

The Ciener followers are compatible with black-dog machine magazines, which are the same magazines that the Sig 522 ships with. You can either use your pre-ban Cieners with the Sig 522, or rebuild them into Black-Dog Machine mags (which is what I've done with all of mine, for example. They are nicer, more reliable mags than the Cieners).

If you're going to be a dealer in this state, please learn the law and stop spreading FUD. Thanks.

No, sir, THANK YOU!

Just curious...Why would you leave them and put yourself in this position in the first place?

I didn't say that i left them intentionally, I'm saying that IF they were left in the same bag/case as the jailed rifle.

so lemme get this straight, if those high caps were mine to begin with, the ffl cannot take them, regardless.

If the gun came with high caps when the previous owner brings the gun for inspection before the DROS, then he can confiscate them, correct?

this is a .22LR sig 522, featureless or not it does not matter (for anyone who likes to skip to the end of the thread lol)

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Are you really a dealer? Do you deal in handguns and know anything about the safe handling demonstration? You are required by law to perform the safe handling demonstration with the purchaser of a handgun. If the handgun comes with no mags, how are you going to perform the safe handling demonstration without violating the law?

The buyer could be exempt... ie. military or LEO.

Or

I or someone else could provide a magazine...

Or

I could refuse to do the transfer because I feel the parties involved might be engaged in an illegal act.

Yes, I really am a dealer. Are you?

The state says dealers have to do PPT's, but dealers not only have the right, they are obligated by law, to refuse to process any transaction that they feel may be in violation of the law.

When you've spent 30 years in the gun business, then you can send me back to school.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Seriously????!

Ok. A semi-automatic centerfire rifle with or without features, with a bullet button installed DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT a detachable magazine. Period. It does not matter if there is actually a magazine in the firearm or not. And the size (capacity) of said nonexistent magazine matters not either. The fact that the capacity of the rifle is undefined makes absolutely no legal difference whatsoever.

Will someone please send this shop a truckload of flowcharts?

Have you read the BATFE FAQ regarding multiple long gun transactions and how they define "capable of accepting a detachable magazine"?

Scary stuff if CA DOJ ever decides to use definitions as established by the BATFE technology branch...


Are you a lawyer?

I'm not.

Maybe YOU should head off to law school and then you can do some lawyering.

I'll stick to selling guns.

I love selling guns.

[CHS]

Have you read the BATFE FAQ regarding multiple long gun transactions and how they define "capable of accepting a detachable magazine"?

Scary stuff if CA DOJ ever decides to use definitions as established by the BATFE technology branch...

*headdesk*

The BATFE definitions have nothing to do with CA gun laws regarding detachable magazines. Period.

The CA DOJ is prohibited by law from randomly adopting new "detachable magazine" definitions. The definition of "detachable magazine" as relates to assault weapon issues is part of CA LAW. The BATFE can say whatever they want on the matter and it doesn't change CA LAW, nor can it change a CA non-AW into an AW (since no such construct exists at the federal level).

A semi-automatic rifle with a bullet button installed and NO magazine, assuming it is at least 30" in length, cannot be an assault weapon in CA, and the BATFE can't make it one either. Nor can the DOJ just arbitrarily decide that it is one based on BATFE opinions, since the DOJ is bound by California law on the matter and NOT BATFE opinion.

For the DOJ to adopt the BATFE definitions, it would require new legislation to be signed by the governor of California. This would not be a simple matter of the DOJ just adopting BATFE opinion as it would be an entirely new LAW.

Are you a lawyer?

Maybe YOU should head off to law school and then you can do some lawyering.

I've gone head to head with Jason Davis, and won. He'll attest to that fact. And I'm not even a lawyer.

Maybe you should learn the law before you sell some more guns, instead of strut your ignorance.

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

You keep playing lawyer...

I'll keep selling guns.

I love selling guns.

[Rekrab]

I <3 CHS. Have my man babies!