Earliest 'Assault Weapon'

[Patriot]

Fits one of the criteria?

Gatling gun

One of the numbered sets of criteria.

Are they considered automatic or manual repeaters

Okay, maybe hand-held is vague but use judgment. LMG/GPMG that are reasonably hand-portable without disassembly by one man and can be hand operated in a reasonable way

[NeoWeird]

One of the numbered sets of criteria.

Are they considered automatic or manual repeaters

Okay, maybe hand-held is vague but use judgment. LMG/GPMG that are reasonably hand-portable without disassembly by one man and can be hand operated in a reasonable way

That seems like even more of a stretch than a heavy MG. A Browning 1919 or MG 42 could be transported by one man and fired while being transported. The Gatling gun's crank would be near impossible to operate while being moved or held.

I think you guys are cheating.

[Scarecrow Repair]

A contrarian thought

Well off topic, but I can't resist ...

Seems to me an assault weapon is something so much better than the standard of the day that it overwhelms the opposition. In which case I would venture the Henry and Sharps repeating rifles or the first Colt revolvers. They weren't semi-auto, but they eliminated loading between shots, which seems to me a bigger relative advance than from bolt action to semi-auto. Either the Henry or the Sharps (maybe both, I do not remember) was known to the Confederates as the rifle that the Yankee loaded on Sunday and fired all day Monday. When the Texans took the first Colt revolvers into battle against Indians, the Indians charged after the first shot and were rudely surprised by the followup shots.

I think the revolver and the two repeating rifles qualify in spirit as the first assault weapons, but of course they don't meet the rules you laid down, so I won't mind if you ignore me...

[Patriot]

NeoWeird - I misspoke. What I meant what that potential entries had to fit one of the numbered sets of criteria, not that the Gatling actually qualified.

Well off topic, but I can't resist ...

Seems to me an assault weapon is something so much better than the standard of the day that it overwhelms the opposition. In which case I would venture the Henry and Sharps repeating rifles or the first Colt revolvers. They weren't semi-auto, but they eliminated loading between shots, which seems to me a bigger relative advance than from bolt action to semi-auto. Either the Henry or the Sharps (maybe both, I do not remember) was known to the Confederates as the rifle that the Yankee loaded on Sunday and fired all day Monday. When the Texans took the first Colt revolvers into battle against Indians, the Indians charged after the first shot and were rudely surprised by the followup shots.

I think the revolver and the two repeating rifles qualify in spirit as the first assault weapons, but of course they don't meet the rules you laid down, so I won't mind if you ignore me...

[OT, cont'd] Brady Campaign Against Damned Yankee Rifles: "These accursed weapons can be fired multiple times without reloading. Clearly they are too powerful for ordinary citizenry."

While there is something to your argument, my interest here is in semiautomatic/automatic longarms meeting the other criteria.

[BillCA]

I'd go with one of the 1896 Mauser Pistol variants that was able to fire full-auto.

.30 Mauser cartridge
10 round clip-fed magazine (fixed)
Shoulder stock (doubles as a holster)
Select-fire

[NeoWeird]

I'd go with one of the 1896 Mauser Pistol variants that was able to fire full-auto.

.30 Mauser cartridge
10 round clip-fed magazine (fixed)
Shoulder stock (doubles as a holster)
Select-fire

I believe the full auto variants came standard with a removable 20 rounder.

[gazzavc]

Bren gun.

[BillCA]

Neo,

Thanks. I had to look it up and you are correct.

For the life of me, though, I can't think of any firearm earlier than the Mauser which fired more than 10 rounds in either semi or full auto mode.

Unless one considers the Gatling gun semi-auto because the "crank" is also the trigger, it should qualify since it is magazine fed.

Anyone know when the first semi-auto longarm appeared with a detachable magazine?
Had to be somewhere between about 1890 and 1920, I think.

Circa 1906 or 1908 there was the "Pederson device" that allowed the Springfield 1903 rifle to fire a short .30 cal cartridge, semiauto with a stick magazine as I recall.

[Patriot]

Neo,

Thanks. I had to look it up and you are correct.

For the life of me, though, I can't think of any firearm earlier than the Mauser which fired more than 10 rounds in either semi or full auto mode.

Unless one consideres the Gatling gun semi-auto because the "crank" is also the trigger, it should qualify since it is magazine fed.

A lot of the earlier firearms mentioned thus far fall in a fairly narrow range.

world.guns.ru dates the [a ] select-fire Mauser C96 variant at 1931-32 (circa Soviet AVS/SVT & PPD and German MP38). Browning BAR M1918 and the Thompson SMG (1919/21 onwards) are close to the MP18.

Poking around said site I found a few more:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as86-e.htm

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl23-e.htm

Re detachable magazines, they probably weren't of much use (being too bulky) until more intermediate power (=smaller) rifle cartridges were developed.

[FatKatMatt]

Federov Avtomat, manufactured starting in 1919, semi auto and select fire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedorov_Avtomat

[m24armorer]

Farquar hill, Mondragon and there was actually a Enfield No1 conversion. Not to mention the original german MK 42 HS (for kurz ctg.)

[petey]

How about the Hotchkiss M1909?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_M1909_Benet-Mercie_machine_gun

It came out well before Browning's M1918

[Matt777]

How about the Cei Riggotti rifle? It had a 25 round magazine.

[AJAX22]

The remington model 8 semi auto rifle took detachable mags and extended mags were available from the factory.

http://texashideout.tripod.com/fhjr.jpg

also the colt monitor was a pistol grip equiped full auto weapon that fed from a detachable mag.

winchester 1905 looks like the earliest centerfire detachable mag semi auto production rifle.

[metalhead357]

Whatta bout the 1903 with that attachment/mag to turn that sucker into full auto??????????