Pre-ban vs. new 30 round rebuild kits?

[thomasesmith3]

I'm very confused. On a featureless AR-15 it's ok to use "normal capacity" 30 mags as long as they are pre-ban, correct? So, not that I would do it, but, what stops someone from using a rebuild kit "normal capacity" mag? How can you tell the difference?

[macey109]

Did you own the mags prior to the ban?

[brianm767]

No it's not ok as long they are pre ban, it's ok if you owned them in the state of Cali prior to 2000.

What should keep some one from assembling kits is the fact that it is a Felony to do so.

There is no way to tell if a mag was owned by you in Cali prior to the ban. Only you can tell.

It's not worth it.

[CHS]

I'm very confused. On a featureless AR-15 it's ok to use "normal capacity" 30 mags as long as they are pre-ban, correct? So, not that I would do it, but, what stops someone from using a rebuild kit "normal capacity" mag? How can you tell the difference?

You can use ANY 30rd mag in a featureless AR-15. That's not an issue.

The legal issue is with the magazines themselves. Unless you already owned the magazines inside California before Jan. 1, 2000, there are VERY FEW AND LIMITED lawful means post-2000 in which to acquire new ones. Normally, acquisition is a felony through importation or manufacturing (assembling a rebuild kit).

Those magazines obtained lawfully (before 2000 or after) may have parts replaced so that they appear or become new magazines (rebuild USGI to PMAG, for example).

Generally though, possession and use of ANY large-capacity magazine is perfectly legal in California (exceptions being maglocked AR15's for example).

[thomasesmith3]

So, if I purchase magazines from somebody and they say that they are pre-ban, I put them on my featureless AR-15, it's OK... But, what if they were rebuilds and there is no way to tell? Is there some kind of certification I have to have with the mags to prove they are pre-ban? And, if there is no way to tell the difference, how can anyone be prosecuted as long as the rifle is featureless?

[secret.asian.man]

some magazines are date stamped. my aluminum mags are

[ThatsJustBadTaste]

Not illegal to own just to buy... Better to buy the rebuild kits and fix your already owned preban mags...

[G-forceJunkie]

No! Answer this question: How many 20 or 30 round AR magazines did you own on Janunry 1st 2000? If the answer is zero, you (with some very strict exceptions) cannot posess them. You cant buy them. You cannot assemble "rebuild" kits. The word "Pre ban" means nothing anymore. It was only in effect from 1994 to 2004, it has nothing to do with the magazine laws in California today.

So, if I purchase magazines from somebody and they say that they are pre-ban, I put them on my featureless AR-15, it's OK... But, what if they were rebuilds and there is no way to tell? Is there some kind of certification I have to have with the mags to prove they are pre-ban? And, if there is no way to tell the difference, how can anyone be prosecuted as long as the rifle is featureless?

[G-forceJunkie]

Which means nothing in California today. When a magazine body was built has nothing to do with anything.

some magazines are date stamped. my aluminum mags are

[CHS]

So, if I purchase magazines from somebody and they say that they are pre-ban, I put them on my featureless AR-15, it's OK... But, what if they were rebuilds and there is no way to tell? Is there some kind of certification I have to have with the mags to prove they are pre-ban? And, if there is no way to tell the difference, how can anyone be prosecuted as long as the rifle is featureless?

Being that it's a felony to sell "pre-ban" large capacity magazines (or ANY large-capacity magazines), you'd best stay away from that sale.

If you don't own any large-capacity magazines already, you aren't getting any new ones generally without committing a felony.

[natrab]

Point being if you did try to evade the law by assembling a 30 round mag and saying you had it before 2000, it would come down to a "he said, she said" between you and the law. Not a position you want to be in.

I'm 27 and my parents are both anti-gun. I'd have a hard time convincing a judge that I legally bought 30 round AR-15 magazines when I was 15 years old and didn't own an AR.

My only solution has been to go shooting with my LEO friend and use his hi cap mags. Otherwise I save my rebuild kits for trips out of state then the fun can ensue (nothing like going to Tahoe for a snowboard trip, then over to Reno for some shooting!).

[dieselpower]

once again to make this clear in order to put it several different ways to people...

California has NO MAGAZINE BAN. California regulates the Sale of, Manufacture of, lending of and importation of, certain magazines.... thats it.

If you have a magazine over 10 rds in capacity you can use it as you see fit. If you use it in a rifle with a magazine lock, you have created an Assault Weapon, which could be illegal depending on who you are. If you don't know if thats legal for you to do... you probably shouldn't be doing it. If the rifle has no magazine locking feature you can use any over 10 capacity magazine you find.

heres the law that confuses people....
"A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds"

They think it means you can not own a 10+ magazine... it doesn't say that.

The law on magazines... note what is NOT illegal... owning, and using...
"Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine."

[Sniper3142]

So, if I purchase magazines from somebody and they say that they are pre-ban, I put them on my featureless AR-15, it's OK... But, what if they were rebuilds and there is no way to tell?

That will not mean that YOU can possess or use those LCMs (Large Capacity Magazine).

Unless YOU possessed them in this state prior to the ban date it means nothing. You can not obtain new ones legally (with darn few and rare exceptions). They are not transferable either.

So if the number of LCMs you currently own in this state is zero. It will have to remain that way.

Is there some kind of certification I have to have with the mags to prove they are pre-ban? And, if there is no way to tell the difference, how can anyone be prosecuted as long as the rifle is featureless?

A good way to imply (if not prove) you didn't own any LCMs is to post certain questions on open forums...

[thomasesmith3]

Thanks dieselpower, I read the law again and you're right... My next question is then: if the burden of proof is on the prosecution and there are no markings to prove when it was made or how I received it, then, there is no grounds for prosecution, or am I missing something? Is there any kind of correspondence from CA DOJ on the subject?

[Peter.Steele]

Point being if you did try to evade the law by assembling a 30 round mag and saying you had it before 2000, it would come down to a "he said, she said" between you and the law. Not a position you

Point of order: it's actually a matter of saying you had it before ((today's date)-3*365 days), according to the statute of limitations, and since the law in this country was "innocent until proven guilty," last time I checked, it should really be "he said, I remained silent, he could not prove."

But hey, ymmv.