BS at target masters?

[b18bturboek9]

Well I happened to be in the area with a friend of mine, who had been looking to buy his first firearm and made the decision to get a Springfield XD9 or S&W M&P9. Why browsing the display case I couldnt fight the urge to buy another firearm so I ended up buying a M&P40, but while I was filling the paperwork out the subject of keeping a firearm in my trunk in a locked container with ammo came up and they told me that was illegal and that they have to be separated, the gun in trunk and ammo in car. I looked at the young guys behind the counter like are you serious. Because I keep my firearm in my trunk in a locked briefcase with ammo but the firearm isnt loaded/mag seperated from firearm but that its just in the same container locked in a combination locked briefcase/with pad lock option if needed. I was laughing at first then figured oh well I'm not going to get into a pissing match over this when all I wanted was my firearm and to get out of there. My question is, whats the penal code for keeping a firearm in your trunk, that's in a locked container/w ammo so if I'm ever get pulled over or questioned I'd have a easier time at helping a less informed person/LEO of the laws.

[hasserl]

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

http://www.calgunlaws.com/

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

[mossy]

FUD at TM!!!! no way!are you sure, they are a very professional store and there are valid reasons why they force you to give ID for everything you buy like cleaning patches, and shirts......

[bwiese]

Well I happened to be in the area with a friend of mine, who had been looking to buy his first firearm and made the decision to get a Springfield XD9 or S&W M&P9. Why browsing the display case I couldnt fight the urge to buy another firearm so I ended up buying a M&P40, but while I was filling the paperwork out the subject of keeping a firearm in my trunk in a locked container with ammo came up and they told me that was illegal and that they have to be separated, the gun in trunk and ammo in car. I looked at the young guys behind the counter like are you serious. Because I keep my firearm in my trunk in a locked briefcase with ammo but the firearm isnt loaded/mag seperated from firearm but that its just in the same container locked in a combination locked briefcase/with pad lock option if needed. I was laughing at first then figured oh well I'm not going to get into a pissing match over this when all I wanted was my firearm and to get out of there. My question is, whats the penal code for keeping a firearm in your trunk, that's in a locked container/w ammo so if I'm ever get pulled over or questioned I'd have a easier time at helping a less informed person/LEO of the laws.

You are getting gunshop F.U.D. - teenybopper or crusty old f*rt, I dunno.

PC 12026/12026.1 allows exemption for transport concealed - locked container, unloaded, etc.

Furthermore, People v. Clark is the case law that says, in essence, what's actually a loaded handgun.

CHP properly and simply summarizes this in http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05:

If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried
unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may
secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition
may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded
with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

Thus a gun is not considered loaded in CA if ammo is not in the gun's chamber, not in its cylinder, nor loaded into a mag that is inside the gun's magwell.

A loaded mag separate from the gun and not in its magwell simply does not constitute a loaded gun.

A separate loaded mag or boxes of ammo can be transported in the same container as the handgun without gun being considered loaded.

There simply is no required 'separation of compartments' or 'separation of containers' for unloaded gun and ammo.

Now, although a traditional car trunk is considered a locked container (that is, not needing another locked container in there to store the gun) - modern car trunks with flow-thru tilt-down rear seats and/or trunk release buttons on the dash may incur risk not being considered a fully locked container (we really don't know more, this hasn't been litigated but this is an area I'd be cautious of... you have an argument, the prosecution can have an argument).

The cross-bed toolboxes common on today's pickup trucks also may run the risk of being considered as an undefined 'utility box' - which (along with glove boxes) is not legal for gun storage [unless the gun was inside its own locked container inside]. While the likely legislative intent of the term 'utility box' probably means another convenience compartment in the cab / driver's reach and similar in concept to the glove box (i.e, commonly in the bolster between driver & passenger seat), we again really don't know. There's no guarantee a court may interpret this properly or to the extreme given it is undefined in statute or regulation.

[In particular, the common truck cross-bed toolboxes by WeatherGard/ Knaack are in fact specifically called 'utility boxes' on their label plates by the manufacturers. Given this, I transport my handguns and certain registered 12276/12276.1PC semiauto centerfire rifles within my truck toolbox in their own separate locked containers within.]

[Merc1138]

Do yourself a favor, go to google and paste the following

site:calguns.net targetmasters

Notice the hundreds of complaints over everything from idiot salespeople, FUD, lame policies, poor range conditions, etc. Basically it's safe to assume that no one in that shop knows what they're talking about, ever.

[b18bturboek9]

Thanks again for the help and I really didnt mean to throw TM under the bus I just found it weird that alot of the sales people are really young and didnt know their laws but they arent there to be lawyers and are trying to be on the safe side or told certain things to make it easier on someone but for the most part just happened to be down the street with a friend and stopped in. And ya I've read numerous stories about TM and totally understand the negative feedback but i'm not there to judge ppl just shoot or buy firearms if I'm in the area and get out.

[WWDHD?]

Don't go to TM for legal advice! Don't ask them to prepare your tax return or fix your bicycle either.
Do go to TM to look at lots of cool guns for sale, maybe even buy one at a reasonable price, shoot a gun on their range for $6/hour during the week, or possibly rent a handgun you've always wanted to try out from their large rental selection. Thats it!

[17+1]

Do yourself a favor, go to google and paste the following

site:calguns.net targetmasters

Notice the hundreds of complaints over everything from idiot salespeople, FUD, lame policies, poor range conditions, etc. Basically it's safe to assume that no one in that shop knows what they're talking about, ever.

Worst thing about Target Masters is they rent to ANYONE...they do a really lame safety demo and then send green people onto the open range. I've had guns pointed at me there, not good, never going back.

Check out Reeds. Slightly more expensive, but safer, cleaner and more professional in general. I wouldn't buy anything major there, as prices are kind of high, but it's an OK range.

Don't go to TM for legal advice! Don't ask them to prepare your tax return or fix your bicycle either.
Do go to TM to look at lots of cool guns for sale, maybe even buy one at a reasonable price, shoot a gun on their range for $6/hour during the week, or possibly rent a handgun you've always wanted to try out from their large rental selection. Thats it!

Except their rentals aren't maintained and tend to jam every other round...you get what you pay for.

[BayAreaShooter]

If you bought a gun today please print out the penal code and take it back with you when you go for your pickup. Just leave it with them to Educate themselves.

On a side note I refuse to do any business with them of any kind. I would not even step foot in there store if there were naked super models shooting fully auto AK'S at exploding targets.

[dadoody]

FUD, I been hearing that FUD since the 90s

[FeuerFrei]

If you bought a gun today please print out the penal code and take it back with you when you go for your pickup. Just leave it with them to Educate themselves.

On a side note I refuse to do any business with them of any kind. I would not even step foot in there store if there were naked super models shooting fully auto AK'S at exploding targets.

I will go on record as to saying the whole naked super model etc. would be a big draw for me and my buddies.
However, I have experienced a few FUD-isms at most of the shops I visit.
Examples;
Rebuild kits are illegal to sell to John Q. Public.
ARs have to be top load only.
You CAN make a pistol out of ANY AR lower.
...it seems every shop owner KNOWS the law and there ain't no changing their minds.
Whatever.

[Merc1138]

I will go on record as to saying the whole naked super model etc. would be a big draw for me and my buddies.

Except to see the naked supermodels at targetmasters you need to hand over your car keys, drivers license, notarized copy of your birth certificate, fill out 3 forms each in triplicate, wait for approval from the manager at each step...

...and then the models can only shoot 1 round per 3 seconds, no headshots unless they happen to be cops, and using thongs as a holster for $1 bills gets them kicked out after some dude has a negligent discharge and hits the ceiling.

[Army]

... I would not even step foot in there store if there were naked super models shooting fully auto AK'S at exploding targets.

OHhhhhh.. 'sploding targets would be so difficult to pass up!

[-hanko]

Thanks again for the help and I really didnt mean to throw TM under the bus...

TM was tossed under the bus years ago...their fault.

-hanko