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I pulled this off of a Sailing Cruisers Forum thread regarding cruising armed...
You guys might be interested in the opinion of this veteran law enforcement officer...
Regarding deadly force and gun fights...
His post:
=====
Re: Fight or Flight?
Personal defense on the water, as with personal defense on land, is probably the most personal decision someone can make.
And, I wonder how many people cruising, most of whom have had a lifetime of being able to just 911 in a crisis, and wait for
the screaming sirens to know help is on the way, have ever even really thought about how very different their situation really
is now.
But, remember this-- just as the fact that going out and buying a really nice tool set, with no training or experience,
does not make you in the least prepared to overhaul a diesel engine, buying a really nice shotgun, AK or handgun, with no
training or experience in how and when to use it, does not in the least prepare you for how to handle a potential deadly force
encounter.
I am just a few weeks from retirement from over twenty six years in local, state, and federal drug/narcotics law
enforcement. Our 42 foot sloop sits at the dock ready to go on our great adventure, (my wife and I are about to go on an
extended cruise to the Caribbean), and I have lurked all over this site for years. And, being that I am also a law enforcement
veteran with over twenty six years, I do feel somewhat more qualified to opine on this, than on subjects such as proper rigging
tension!
Most people, without self-defense experience (military or law enforcement generally) tend to base everything they know
about it on television and movies and what they have seen in thousands of staged fights and encounters. That is a far cry from
what almost always happens in real life when someone attacks you. The biggest difference is speed. In real life, attacks happen
blindingly fast and are over fast. In seconds in fact.
Where experience comes into play in self defense, just like in being out on the water, is in two areas. One, is knowing
what is probably about to happen way before it happens, (at least if you are lucky), in other words, situational awareness.
And, two having been in those situations so often, or having trained so much, that it is second nature to know what to do about
it when it does happen, and to do it quickly, and correctly.
The people who will attack you, and who would kill you to take a very small amount of material goods from you, (i.e. who
are dangerous enough to kill or seriously injure you) will already have that experience in most cases. Simple thieves will be
as innocent as you are in that area. Criminals--on the land, on water, anywhere-- can be divided into two basic classes,
Scavengers and Predators. Scavengers are basically just thieves, often just down on their luck, and are almost always non-
violent, no matter what the circumstances. Predators, plan on, and will resort to violence very quickly to get what they want.
Knowing the difference, and knowing what deters them, is critical, on land or water. Thankfully, there are a hell of a lot more
Scavengers than Predators, but how do you tell the difference, and how do you deal with each?
I have never been mugged or robbed, in twenty five years of working, often alone, in some very dangerous parts of the world
(and, neither have the vast majority of law enforcement officers). The main reason is that people who are confident and appear
ready to defend themselves are usually passed up by Scavengers, and even by Predators, for someone who doesn't look like that.
Even Predators are not looking for a fight they are not sure they can win, and they don't want to be shot or injured any more
than you do. Most of their fights, and they know it, too, are the result of poor victim selections. Neither has any no ego, (it
is just a job to them) and they will break off a planned attack or theft operation, when they are not highly confident of the
outcome. They know there are more, and perhaps easier victims coming down the pike (through the pass).
The worst thing in the world you can do (as Sir Peter Blake found out) is to pull a gun on people who don't believe you
have the skills or confidence or will, to make having that gun make a difference. And, they can tell, believe me, they ... can
... tell.. Police disarm people all of the time that we could have legally shot for the same reason--with some people, you can
just tell they don't have it in them to shoot or hurt someone. If you don't have that in you, don't think you can fool someone
into believing it. Because if you can, the person you did fool was not a real threat in the first place.
A good example I give to people on land to make this point is imagine walking through a crowded shopping mall with a
pistol, that everyone could see in your belt. You would quickly create panic and a stampede (and no one, other than the police,
would do anything). Now take that same pistol and walk through the middle of the ghetto with it. You will not only create no
panic, but many of the people who watch you walk by will be trying to think of a plan to take your gun from you, and sooner or
later, one would.
And, one quick word. The idea that a flare gun would scare them is so laughable that I would feel safe in saying that
anyone who thinks it, would is better off carrying nothing, completely submitting to an attacker, and hoping for the best.
Scavengers will be scared off. Predators will take it from you and stick it where it will really hurt.
It's what they see in you, more than what they see you holding. And, experience is they only real teacher of that. And,
training is the only way to fill that gap while you wait for the experience to come. It is really just like sailing. A gunfight
is the equivalent of a trans-Atlantic passage in bad weather. How much training and experience would you want to have under
your belt before you tried that one? Believe it or not, a gunfight is usually much more dangerous.
Bottom line. If you are going to carry a gun, learn gun-fighting with as much dedication as you learn diesel mechanics,
heavy weather sailing, anchoring techniques, or advanced first aid afloat. Better to have two thousand dollars of training (and
there are plenty of places out there to competently and effectively train you) and a $100 Saturday night special pistol, or
pawnshop shotgun, than to have the most tricked out assault rifle in the world, and think that just thinking you are ready is
enough.
I'm lucky, I've been training and experiencing that kind of thing my whole life. I know what to do and I will do it. I've
seen too many innocent lives ruined by Predators to stand by and willingly let them do it to me or someone I care about, (but,
retired, I won't protect the world and everyone else any longer). I will carry firearms on my vessel (and a ballistic vest,
among other things), just as I will carry a tool set for my diesel. And, for the same reason. Because, if you want to be
prepared for anything, sometimes you need them. But, a tool is someone's hand that does not know how and when and where to use
it, is just a lump of metal, and nothing more. Neither will scare a Predator, or a Yanmar, into doing what you want, just by
pulling it out.
But, that's just my opinion. On the water, as on land, everyone has to make this decision for themselves. Just be honest
with yourself on every part of it, and what you are signing up for, no matter what you do, or don't do, to prepare.
You guys might be interested in the opinion of this veteran law enforcement officer...
Regarding deadly force and gun fights...
His post:
=====
Re: Fight or Flight?
Personal defense on the water, as with personal defense on land, is probably the most personal decision someone can make.
And, I wonder how many people cruising, most of whom have had a lifetime of being able to just 911 in a crisis, and wait for
the screaming sirens to know help is on the way, have ever even really thought about how very different their situation really
is now.
But, remember this-- just as the fact that going out and buying a really nice tool set, with no training or experience,
does not make you in the least prepared to overhaul a diesel engine, buying a really nice shotgun, AK or handgun, with no
training or experience in how and when to use it, does not in the least prepare you for how to handle a potential deadly force
encounter.
I am just a few weeks from retirement from over twenty six years in local, state, and federal drug/narcotics law
enforcement. Our 42 foot sloop sits at the dock ready to go on our great adventure, (my wife and I are about to go on an
extended cruise to the Caribbean), and I have lurked all over this site for years. And, being that I am also a law enforcement
veteran with over twenty six years, I do feel somewhat more qualified to opine on this, than on subjects such as proper rigging
tension!
Most people, without self-defense experience (military or law enforcement generally) tend to base everything they know
about it on television and movies and what they have seen in thousands of staged fights and encounters. That is a far cry from
what almost always happens in real life when someone attacks you. The biggest difference is speed. In real life, attacks happen
blindingly fast and are over fast. In seconds in fact.
Where experience comes into play in self defense, just like in being out on the water, is in two areas. One, is knowing
what is probably about to happen way before it happens, (at least if you are lucky), in other words, situational awareness.
And, two having been in those situations so often, or having trained so much, that it is second nature to know what to do about
it when it does happen, and to do it quickly, and correctly.
The people who will attack you, and who would kill you to take a very small amount of material goods from you, (i.e. who
are dangerous enough to kill or seriously injure you) will already have that experience in most cases. Simple thieves will be
as innocent as you are in that area. Criminals--on the land, on water, anywhere-- can be divided into two basic classes,
Scavengers and Predators. Scavengers are basically just thieves, often just down on their luck, and are almost always non-
violent, no matter what the circumstances. Predators, plan on, and will resort to violence very quickly to get what they want.
Knowing the difference, and knowing what deters them, is critical, on land or water. Thankfully, there are a hell of a lot more
Scavengers than Predators, but how do you tell the difference, and how do you deal with each?
I have never been mugged or robbed, in twenty five years of working, often alone, in some very dangerous parts of the world
(and, neither have the vast majority of law enforcement officers). The main reason is that people who are confident and appear
ready to defend themselves are usually passed up by Scavengers, and even by Predators, for someone who doesn't look like that.
Even Predators are not looking for a fight they are not sure they can win, and they don't want to be shot or injured any more
than you do. Most of their fights, and they know it, too, are the result of poor victim selections. Neither has any no ego, (it
is just a job to them) and they will break off a planned attack or theft operation, when they are not highly confident of the
outcome. They know there are more, and perhaps easier victims coming down the pike (through the pass).
The worst thing in the world you can do (as Sir Peter Blake found out) is to pull a gun on people who don't believe you
have the skills or confidence or will, to make having that gun make a difference. And, they can tell, believe me, they ... can
... tell.. Police disarm people all of the time that we could have legally shot for the same reason--with some people, you can
just tell they don't have it in them to shoot or hurt someone. If you don't have that in you, don't think you can fool someone
into believing it. Because if you can, the person you did fool was not a real threat in the first place.
A good example I give to people on land to make this point is imagine walking through a crowded shopping mall with a
pistol, that everyone could see in your belt. You would quickly create panic and a stampede (and no one, other than the police,
would do anything). Now take that same pistol and walk through the middle of the ghetto with it. You will not only create no
panic, but many of the people who watch you walk by will be trying to think of a plan to take your gun from you, and sooner or
later, one would.
And, one quick word. The idea that a flare gun would scare them is so laughable that I would feel safe in saying that
anyone who thinks it, would is better off carrying nothing, completely submitting to an attacker, and hoping for the best.
Scavengers will be scared off. Predators will take it from you and stick it where it will really hurt.
It's what they see in you, more than what they see you holding. And, experience is they only real teacher of that. And,
training is the only way to fill that gap while you wait for the experience to come. It is really just like sailing. A gunfight
is the equivalent of a trans-Atlantic passage in bad weather. How much training and experience would you want to have under
your belt before you tried that one? Believe it or not, a gunfight is usually much more dangerous.
Bottom line. If you are going to carry a gun, learn gun-fighting with as much dedication as you learn diesel mechanics,
heavy weather sailing, anchoring techniques, or advanced first aid afloat. Better to have two thousand dollars of training (and
there are plenty of places out there to competently and effectively train you) and a $100 Saturday night special pistol, or
pawnshop shotgun, than to have the most tricked out assault rifle in the world, and think that just thinking you are ready is
enough.
I'm lucky, I've been training and experiencing that kind of thing my whole life. I know what to do and I will do it. I've
seen too many innocent lives ruined by Predators to stand by and willingly let them do it to me or someone I care about, (but,
retired, I won't protect the world and everyone else any longer). I will carry firearms on my vessel (and a ballistic vest,
among other things), just as I will carry a tool set for my diesel. And, for the same reason. Because, if you want to be
prepared for anything, sometimes you need them. But, a tool is someone's hand that does not know how and when and where to use
it, is just a lump of metal, and nothing more. Neither will scare a Predator, or a Yanmar, into doing what you want, just by
pulling it out.
But, that's just my opinion. On the water, as on land, everyone has to make this decision for themselves. Just be honest
with yourself on every part of it, and what you are signing up for, no matter what you do, or don't do, to prepare.
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