So this guy shows up with a Slide Fire SSAR15 Stock at the range...

[winnre]

The company insists (I have emails from them) that it is legal in CA and there are even dealers in CA who sell the stocks. I'd have let him shoot away. The worst that can happen is he ends up suing the manufacturer. The best thing is we start to get our rights back.

I get told often that my Serbu is illegal. Know the laws regarding your own firearm is all I can say.

[BrokerB]

what public range allows shooters to shoot faster then 1 round a second anyway?..lmfao

[mes227]

what public range allows shooters to shoot faster then 1 round a second anyway?..lmfao

The public outdoor range in Carson City, NV; Safe Shoot indoor range in Reno, NV; and The Range (indoor) in Grass Valley, CA.

[mes227]

Whatever... it's still a felony to have one in California and that's not going to change any time soon.

Do you have a citation for this, as it goes against everything I've read.

[thetaxman]

The company insists (I have emails from them) that it is legal in CA and there are even dealers in CA who sell the stocks. I'd have let him shoot away. The worst that can happen is he ends up suing the manufacturer. The best thing is we start to get our rights back.

I get told often that my Serbu is illegal. Know the laws regarding your own firearm is all I can say.

How about never being able to own, possess or hold a firearm ever again? That's before you spend a few years being someone's boyfriend inside.

Let's see these emails from the company.

[thetaxman]

Do you have a citation for this, as it goes against everything I've read.

Have a read of 12020 in the penal code and see if you would be prepared to have one here in California.

(23) As used in this section, a "multiburst trigger activator"
means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a
semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or
more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed
and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it
increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

It has been discussed to death here, but I'm happy for you to buy one and use it in front of a group of LEO's and DA's. Just let us know when and where so I can make sure to be there.

[Mr310]

I think you did right by contacting him and I disagree with the people who say 'leave him alone.' We are already backed into a corner as gun owners in this state; we don't need our own kind wanting us to burn. Not everyone reads Calguns and knows about the illegality of that stock and it's unreasonable to expect the average person to know the intricacies, interpretations, case laws, and case law interpretations for firearm laws.

I was at a bar an someone overheard me talking about guns. He said that he had a Glock 17 with a 17 round mag. I quietly went over to him and asked him 'the questions;' did you own it before the ban, did you use it to rebuild, etc. Turns out he got it out of state and thought that it was OK to bring it back. He had no clue. It's all about how you bring it across. If you're polite then you're just helping out your fellow gun owner.

Let the anti's hope we end up in jail for ignorance of the 70 pages of gun laws on the books. We don't need that from our own kind.

+1. In particular the bold part.

[Tarn_Helm]

just a fact

While at the range the other day, this guy shows up with a SSAR15 and want's to take it on the range for a "test fire".

He explains to the manager, with DOJ letter in hand, that the stock is "allowed" in so many words.

I asked the guy if that's the bumpfire stock from slidefire solutions, he responded with a firm "YES".

At this point I tell him in not so many words, "GET RID OF IT" as fast as possible.

A puzzled look overcame his face and I explained his trigger fell under the "multiburst trigger" clause of 12020.

The range manager confirmed this info by searching here on Calguns and promptly asked him to kindly leave with his firearm.

Now, should I have said anything to the guy? Or should I have let him burn on the range?

BTW, there were two detectives on the range getting some practice in.

Sounds like you did the right thing.

If the slide fire dude was otherwise a law-abiding gun owner, then you might have just saved him from a felony and perhaps even nudged him toward joining some little group that informs people about how to not break firearms laws--like the NRA, CRPA, or even CalGuns.

To all the people who say you should have stayed out of it: YOU ARE RETARDED.

That is not an insult just a fact.

Have a nice day.

[BigStiCK]

Actually the letter that comes with these stocks if from BATFE. Not Calif DOJ.

The stocks are legal according to the BATFE. However not in California due to 12020.

You did the right thing.


12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed
and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it
increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

As I read this, the phrase "increases the rate of fire" seems to to be a little vague. The rate of fire of a weapon is mechanically limited. An M-4 like mine will never exceed the standard 600 rpm or thereabouts. This device cannot in any way increase that rate.

With that being said, is there any case law to support the illegality of it?

[Cgrobin]

I am confused and frustrated at the "opinions" regarding legality of these products in California. I feel sorry for those who feel the need to cower under their dining room tables, wondering which freedom their government is going to take away next. The fact remains... if they have not taken it away, then you still have it.

Why does a government have to explicitly state that an item is legal before people will be willing to stand behind it? Without government documentation supporting it, any opinion stating that this product is illegal is only an opinion.

I am familiar with the laws people use to argue their point, but I just don't see any correlation with the Slide Fire stock.

(23) As used in this section, a "multiburst trigger activator"
means one of the following devices:
(A) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a
semiautomatic firearm which allows the firearm to discharge two or
more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(B) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed
and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it
increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

Neither of these describe anything that happens when one discharges a firearm with a Slide Fire stock. The stock has no moving parts, springs or mechanical devices, and therefore is not a "device" that can be "activated" (which negates both clauses). It is not possible to fire two or more shots in a "burst", as a single trigger pull must be performed for each round fired. Without the shooter actively pulling the trigger for the next round, the firearm will not discharge another round.

Even though the Slide Fire stock does not "increase the rate of fire", this is an unenforceable statement. Nothing (much less a gun stock) can change the firearms rate of fire outside of the mechanics of that firearm. Change any part of the mechanics (trigger assembly, bolt carrier, buffer assembly, even brand of ammunition) and the "firing rate" of that firearm will be affected. Being able to pull the trigger faster can be accomplished with nothing more than practice, and can never be a method of enforcing a gun law.

Do a quick search of the Slide Fire website and you will see that there are four dealers offering these products in California. I even had the opportunity to shoot with several California LEO's at SHOT Show in Las Vegas recently. They verified that while California DOJ has received several of these stocks, that no response has been issued because it is their "job to let people know when things are illegal, not when they are legal".

I know that some people are very set in their opinions and will never believe things unless they are in print, signed in triplicate, and posted for the world to review for a minimum of ten years before they might concede the point. For those who want Slide Fire to provide documentation stating the legality of their product, I would love for them to show documentation stating the opposite. I am not here to change anyone's views, only to state my opinion which seems to be so far from the common here. I encourage everyone to get involved with gun rights, and stand up to the constant erosion of our freedoms by contacting any government official you can find and make your opinion known!

Thank you for your time.

[tonelar]

OP,
What DOJ letter?

Cgrobin,
A local ffl phoned CA DOJ inquiring about the Slidefire stock and was told that it wasn't a mechanism, so they had zero issues with it.

[kaligaran]

This is an interesting conversation. Not trying to revive the debate but I know that many of the bump stocks from years past are illegal because they contained a 'device' such as a spring mechanism. The SSAR is just two solid pieces of plastic that fit together. It's still simi-auto since it's a single trigger pull per bullet. It's just a fast triggger pull

Here's a seller in CA that sells them and says that they are legal:

http://www.tacticalrapidfire.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=ssar

This company actually posted up a response on a forum to say that they were legal in CA and for sale at his site.

[stix213]

Its certainly been a while since the original debate on this stock. They have been out for a while, and I don't believe we have heard of anyone popped for it. I'm not sure we should be so quick to give up on it. I'd also like to hear more from what tonelar is saying with regard to DOJ discussing this with local FFL's.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

Here's a seller in CA that sells them and says that they are legal:

http://www.tacticalrapidfire.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=ssar

This company actually posted up a response on a forum to say that they were legal in CA and for sale at his site.

If you have a link to that forum and post, I'd like to see it, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

[Jorge]

This stock is, has been, and will be illegal to possess in California until the law is changed.

So having mere possession of this stock would be illegal? If someone wanted to be on the safe side and were to install the slidefire while in Nevada, then disassemble prior to crossing California state lines, would they still be safe? The only thing i could think of would be "intent to construct", assuming the slidefire stock is indeed illegal in CA.