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**saki302** · 08-20-2007, 1:39 AM

Can I get an A-MEN!

Here's to hoping Google has success and smarts with their auction site..

-Dave

ts · 08-20-2007, 2:43 AM

sorry dude - they don't care. it is not going to hurt them in the least financially and it gives them good PR. it also stops the risk of someone purchasing bullets off ebay and killing someone with it - oh dear i can hear the public outrage right now against ebay if that happened.

bottom line

#1 your letters don't mean anything to them, they most likely won't get read.
#2 95% of people who purchased gun accessories off ebay will still purchase other items off ebay since there is no where else to go.
#3 big deal - gives more money to gunbroker, go there.

people and corporations have stupid ways of thinking and doing things at times - if i had a ccw and someone told me i couldn't bring my gun into their house, so be it. this is not stupid on ebays part though - they will loose no money, at all. they will gain good pr, even with some gun owners.

oh and you just gave them a whole list of other ideas of things to ban. if you don't say it the public does not know - if the public does not know then the companys don't care.

do you really think they care about gun control? do you really think they are doing this out of a moral obligation? HELL NO. they are doing it for the DOLLA DOLLA BILL YALL!

look at their stock since they put this rule into action and see what it looks like.

**WokMaster1** · 08-20-2007, 10:00 AM

FINALLY? It's about time you realized that we have given up on Ebay LOOONG time ago.

**Nefarious** · 08-20-2007, 10:04 AM

You know that they are going to do with that letter - DELETE
Its not going to change their minds one way or another - its falling on deaf eyes

It was great to read, but nothing will come of it

**psriley** · 08-20-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by ts

sorry dude - they don't care. it is not going to hurt them in the least financially and it gives them good PR. it also stops the risk of someone purchasing bullets off ebay and killing someone with it - oh dear i can hear the public outrage right now against ebay if that happened.

bottom line

#1 your letters don't mean anything to them, they most likely won't get read.
#2 95% of people who purchased gun accessories off ebay will still purchase other items off ebay since there is no where else to go.
#3 big deal - gives more money to gunbroker, go there.

people and corporations have stupid ways of thinking and doing things at times - if i had a ccw and someone told me i couldn't bring my gun into their house, so be it. this is not stupid on ebays part though - they will loose no money, at all. they will gain good pr, even with some gun owners.

oh and you just gave them a whole list of other ideas of things to ban. if you don't say it the public does not know - if the public does not know then the companys don't care.

do you really think they care about gun control? do you really think they are doing this out of a moral obligation? HELL NO. they are doing it for the DOLLA DOLLA BILL YALL!

look at their stock since they put this rule into action and see what it looks like.

chief - Having been in a more financially volatile industry than guns for the past 20 years, I have some familiarity with why large corporations do what they do, and I know exactly why Ebay enacted this policy. They did it to preempt possible loss of revenue from people who are morally outraged by Ebay's policy of selling handgun parts that were used in a massacre. Obviously Ebay makes some policy decisions based on projected public opinion and its potential impact on sales. It's called market research. Suppose their market research began to show that public opinion about their gun policies was discriminatory, and that one of their prime demographics was starting to look elsewhere?

Which brings us back to the letter I sent and why I sent it. I bought brass and bullets off Ebay a few times, but to be honest, it really wasn't that much cheaper than getting them from Midway. I had already been buying components elsewhere. I sent the letter because a large company like Ebay going publicly anti-gun could add to a trend that can only be bad for gun owners. Kinda like gun shows with no guns. I want to assist them with their market research, and I encourage you and all gun owners do to the same. Sure it's a drop in the ocean right now, but it doesn't cost anything to send a few emails. If you don't think your opinion is worth anything, then don't bother.

Oh, and the list of other "dangerous items" is also pretty obvious and was included semi-facetiously, just like the Explorer reference.

They did read it by the way. This is the reply I received this morning. Pretty much a form letter sent by a staffer, which is what I expected.

Origination address was: Office of the President <csme@ebay.com>

Dear Patrick Riley,

Thank you for your recent email to Meg Whitman in regard to changes to
our Firearm policy. She has asked that I review your email and respond
on her behalf.

While many everyday items can be used to cause harm to an individual,
most items we permit for sale on eBay are not designed with the intent
to cause harm or are not likely to be used to cause harm. In general, if
items are legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner, we allow them
to be sold on eBay. Many firearm-related parts that can legally be
bought or sold have historically been allowed on eBay.

Now, we are extending our policy to prohibit the sale of any item that
is required for the firing of a gun. These items include bullet tips,
brass casings, shells, barrels, slides cylinders, magazines, etc. Our
decision exceeds the requirements of federal and state regulations for
safety and ensures our US and Canadian policies are in line with our
eBay sites around the world.

As the Internet and the way our communities use the Internet evolves,
our policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. I understand your
concern, however, we determined that this policy change was in the best
interest of promoting a safe marketplace for all members.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Terri
Office of the President

**dfletcher** · 08-20-2007, 11:14 AM

I've just cancelled my PayPal account and since that's the only way I pay for items on EBay, I'm also off EBay as a result.

Business is business, yes. And we can make a general observation regarding their desire to limit legal liability. But to make a judgement as to whether EBay elimited these items we'd have to be privy to a good deal of information such as who is sueing them, what are their insurance costs and the results of their market research.

Are there people out there who decide to not buy on EBay because they carry gun related items? Evidently they are not offended by EBay being described as the biggest fencing operation in the world, because EBay does not exactly go out of its way to ensure stolen items are not listed. Reasonable people may differ, but consistently having new items in unopened boxes at half price is questionable at best.

I wonder, since Virginia Tech is the event they cite have any of the victim's families taken legal action against EBay?

**psriley** · 08-20-2007, 4:07 PM

Originally posted by dfletcher

I've just cancelled my PayPal account and since that's the only way I pay for items on EBay, I'm also off EBay as a result.

Business is business, yes. And we can make a general observation regarding their desire to limit legal liability. But to make a judgement as to whether EBay elimited these items we'd have to be privy to a good deal of information such as who is sueing them, what are their insurance costs and the results of their market research.

Are there people out there who decide to not buy on EBay because they carry gun related items? Evidently they are not offended by EBay being described as the biggest fencing operation in the world, because EBay does not exactly go out of its way to ensure stolen items are not listed. Reasonable people may differ, but consistently having new items in unopened boxes at half price is questionable at best.

I wonder, since Virginia Tech is the event they cite have any of the victim's families taken legal action against EBay?

Well, I'm sure their market research showed that the loss of revenue from the banned items is fairly negligible in the big picture, but that's partly because they probably didn't include gun owners in their market research. I think that many gun owners, like myself, are also into other fairly high-ticket hobbies. I'm not sure they're taking that into account.

I hope the families of the VA Tech tragedy have NOT taken legal action against ebay, just like I hope they didn't take action against the online site that sold the individual one of his guns. I don't think either is culpable for the actions of the insane. I just think its worth a couple of emails try to get my point across.

Cheers!

**psriley** · 08-20-2007, 4:08 PM

Originally posted by WokMaster1

FINALLY? It's about time you realized that we have given up on Ebay LOOONG time ago.

I realize I'm late to the party on this issue. I guess I had been thinking that ebay's policy changes were more lip service than anything else, since as recently as two weeks ago, I bought some brass on ebay and payed with Paypal. When I looked again this week, the utter disappearance of that type item crystallized the issue for me and prompted me to respond such as I am able...with my business.

ts · 08-20-2007, 8:53 PM

Originally posted by psriley

chief - Having been in a more financially volatile industry than guns for the past 20 years, I have some familiarity with why large corporations do what they do, and I know exactly why Ebay enacted this policy. They did it to preempt possible loss of revenue from people who are morally outraged by Ebay's policy of selling handgun parts that were used in a massacre. Obviously Ebay makes some policy decisions based on projected public opinion and its potential impact on sales. It's called market research. Suppose their market research began to show that public opinion about their gun policies was discriminatory, and that one of their prime demographics was starting to look elsewhere?

Yeah, right on the dot - except the part about prime demographics. f-em. But if you see something on eBay that you really want and can't find elsewhere - your telling me you wouldn't buy it?

**psriley** · 08-20-2007, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by ts

Yeah, right on the dot - except the part about prime demographics. f-em. But if you see something on eBay that you really want and can't find elsewhere - your telling me you wouldn't buy it?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think there isn't much that I care about that can't be found elsewhere, especially gun stuff. I don't really need Ebay, and I don't feel like contributing to the bottom line of a company that has alienated my interests and is openly hypocritical. YMMV.

Cheers!

ts · 08-21-2007, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by psriley

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think there isn't much that I care about that can't be found elsewhere, especially gun stuff. I don't really need Ebay, and I don't feel like contributing to the bottom line of a company that has alienated my interests and is openly hypocritical. YMMV.

Cheers!

i rarely deal with ebay, under 20 times my entire life. i once sold a human skull (medical - real good condition too, just creeped me out) for $800. (i am serious) the whole process is just a hassle.

**SJshooter** · 08-21-2007, 8:55 AM

At the end of the day, the 2nd Ammendment doesn't give me the right to sell gun parts on eBay, so I don't feel as though my rights are being infringed. There are other websites for gun parts but there are some things you can only buy on eBay, so I'm not going to stop using them.

I'm also not going to stop eating Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, wearing Levi's Jeans, going to my local AMC Movie Theater, or listening to Tony Bennett albums. The NRA has name-specific blacklisted all of the above as anti-gun on their webpage... but life is too short to try and surround yourself in a cocoon of political agreement.

**SemiAutoSam** · 08-21-2007, 9:14 AM

Talk about the list, Here is at least one list.

http://www.nracentral.com/nra-blacklist.php

**psriley** · 08-21-2007, 5:46 PM

Originally posted by SJshooter

At the end of the day, the 2nd Ammendment doesn't give me the right to sell gun parts on eBay, so I don't feel as though my rights are being infringed. There are other websites for gun parts but there are some things you can only buy on eBay, so I'm not going to stop using them.

I'm also not going to stop eating Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, wearing Levi's Jeans, going to my local AMC Movie Theater, or listening to Tony Bennett albums. The NRA has name-specific blacklisted all of the above as anti-gun on their webpage... but life is too short to try and surround yourself in a cocoon of political agreement.

Some causes are important enough to at least make a token gesture. What if the next whacko beheads a bunch of people with a camping axe he bought off Ebay and it gets as much press as the VA Tech whacko? Do you think Ebay is going to stop facilitating selling camping axes? No. Don 't me wrong, I'm not suggesting Ebay stop selling that stuff. I'm suggesting they stop singling out gun stuff.

I totally understand their policy and why they enacted it. But there are hundreds (maybe thousands?) of businesses that directly sell firearm-related goods who did not and do not cave in to reactionary anti-gun pressure, and they are doing just fine. This was an opportunity for eBay to show that they won't have their policies dictated by a disturbed individual and to show that they are capable of differentiating a disturbed individual from a legitimate hobbyist. And I bet it wouldn't have cost them anything in terms of lost revenue.

By pulling most of the gun-related items but none of the other items that are clearly either designed to do harm or can do so very effectively, they are being hypocritical. Worse, by pulling those items, they are effectively lumping legitimate firearms enthusiasts (us) in with the VA Tech whacko.

And about the anti-gun list of celebrities on the NRA list. How many of the actors and actresses have appeared in violent films where they've used prop guns to blow people away? Here's a hint: go watch "The Quick and The Dead". Yeah, Sharon Stone is an actress and that's what she's paid to do. No argument there. But who knows how many people got interested in big ol' revolvers because of that movie and went and bought one? Good flick by the way.

I don't mind people or organizations having opposing viewpoints to mine, in fact, I welcome it. I just hate hypocrisy, especially when it helps to erode a freedom I feel pretty strongly about.

Cheers!

ETA: Just noticed that Tim "Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction" Roth is on the list, too. Has nothing to do with Ebay, really, except the hypocrisy.

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