BSIS Exposed Firearm training, a joke?

[Laser Sailor]

I just attended a class to get my exposed firearm permit. The training was laughable at best, downright scary at worst. Basically it consisted of being told not to shoot anyone unless you really have to and are in fear of your life and basic gun safety. Which is fine and all, but there was no practical training whatsoever. Zero talk about using sights, cover vs concealment, grip fundamentals, stances, how to load, unload and show clear. Nothing. The instructor was very good at spewing FUD (most notably that ammo must be stored seperate from the gun when transporting) and cop stories from his days on the NYPD.

As an experenced shooter taking this course I was very disappointed in the lazy and unprofessional manner in which a very serious topic was discussed. Not only did the instructor not actually teach us anything of value, he gave students the answers DURING the test! That has to be illegal.

On the range things were no better, at least safety was the first consideration. The ability of my fellow students to shoot was again almost laughable. Nobody had what I'd call a grouping, they just placed shots all over the target and passed. We're talking about a 15 yard max distance. I put up an easy four or five inch grouping with a few strays from shooting off hand unsupported.

Anybody else taken the BSIS course? Have a similar experence? Should I contact BSIS and report what the school is doing with regards to the instructor blatantly giving away answers?

[cv0lv0g0]

I don't know much of cal law and i try to stay away from subject that deal with it.
If exposed firearm training is cowboy style its stupid if im a gunman you are the first person im going to shoot.

[Laser Sailor]

Which is why I personally plan to train beyond what's required by BSIS anyway. I just thought that as stringent as CA is on guns, the level of qualification to carry loaded in public would be higher.

[760practicalshooter]

Yes I agree that it was laughable at best.

[vintagearms]

Personally Im of the mind of MYOB in regards to BSIS training. Its up to the state, not me, on what standards they have for qualification. I completed the course a few weeks ago at Angeles Range and was taught the proper methods but didnt have an issue with being "assisted" with test answers. If you have an issue with it, perhaps chalk that up to the state's standards and find a non BSIS training facility for further training.
Side question, were you a hall monitor in high school?

[coyotebait]

Personally Im of the mind of MYOB in regards to BSIS training. Its up to the state, not me, on what standards they have for qualification. I completed the course a few weeks ago at Angeles Range and was taught the proper methods but didnt have an issue with being "assisted" with test answers. If you have an issue with it, perhaps chalk that up to the state's standards and find a non BSIS training facility for further training.
Side question, were you a hall monitor in high school?

[sacluded]

I've taken the class twice, and will probably take it a third time. I keep thinking, "I won't need this permit anymore," and I keep regretting it. Maybe this time I'll learn.

It really all comes down to the school and the instructor. BSIS dictates the minimum that has to be covered, it's up to the instructor to impart it.

[shovel88ci]

I have to deal with bsis almost on a weekly basis. Not for the security stuff, for the other side that they handle. Let me tell you, you cannot make an anonymous complaint to them. And they are a true pita.

[bluestaterebel]

Side question, were you a hall monitor in high school?

LMAO

[supertrooper]

it depend on where you go. some are legit but most are a joke although you did have unrealistic expectations of the class. its a very basic safety class not a tactical pistol course. its is supposed to be a 16 hour class but i did mine in 6 and half was watching OIS vids. im a desent pistol shooter and the intsructor usually stops paying attention to me once he sees me shoot and how i handle a gun at requals. BSIS is a joke, they have very low standards and high permit fees. this reminds me i need to requal soon, more $ out of my pocket.

[MP301]

Yes, it does depend on where you go. The State requirements are met and that is why you need to be respinsible and take it upon yourself to cointinue to get as much trauning and practice as possible. When i did it, I went to advanced classes and the the Police academy because i gave a crap about my skills.

Consider what you just did an "Introduction" and go from there. The state is not inteterested in making you a gunfighter. They are just interested making sure you have a basic idea of what is going on.

And keep in mind, they class is designed for the least common denominator - i.e. the stupidest person in the class. Im sure you noticed those people that were either the polor oppostite as rocket scientists as well as people who just had no skill yet.

Dont be a Hall Monitor. If you wanted to complain, you should have done it while you were there. Im sure that would have gone well.....

[CitaDeL]

I don't know much of cal law and i try to stay away from subject that deal with it.
If exposed firearm training is cowboy style its stupid if im a gunman you are the first person im going to shoot.

BSIS issues an exposed firearm permit for armed secuirity guards and armored transport guards. This is exclusively for their employment.

If you are refering to 'open carry' as 'cowboy style', there is no training, permit, or license required.

If you were a gunman, how could you possibly know that there werent more armed people around if you are looking at one person who was conspicuously armed? How could you know with any certainty that the armed person you were looking at wasnt a police officer?

[Soldier415]

Our Training Division includes a BSIS Firearm Training Facility.

The State's requirements are very low, and there isn't much oversight. It all depends on the school/instructor. We train our students above and beyond what BSIS requires to include 7 fundamentals of marksmanship, weapons presentation, reloading (speed/tactical), shooting from standing, kneeling with both strong and week hand supported and unsupported.

We also refuse to allow our range to be used for outside BSIS instructors to conduct qualifications because we have no way to verify the level of training they provide, and we want no part of substandard training.

Crappy instructors churning out armed guards with piss poor training is going to get a guard or a bystander killed.

[BigDogatPlay]

Our Training Division includes a BSIS Firearm Training Facility.

The State's requirements are very low, and there isn't much oversight. It all depends on the school/instructor. We train our students above and beyond what BSIS requires to include 7 fundamentals of marksmanship, weapons presentation, reloading (speed/tactical), shooting from standing, kneeling with both strong and week hand supported and unsupported.

We also refuse to allow our range to be used for outside BSIS instructors to conduct qualifications because we have no way to verify the level of training they provide, and we want no part of substandard training.

Crappy instructors churning out armed guards with piss poor training is going to get a guard or a bystander killed.

+1 to all the above.

The state's mandate is laughable, and appears to be grounded in the mindset of "yeah we gave you a permit, just don't ever use that gun even if you have to".

Guards who work armed, and particularly armored transport guards, owe it to themselves to become proficient and retain that proficiency.

[jlooking]

The initial class can be bad/scary if you have new shooters who haven't shot before (and you hoping they don't shoot you by accident) thinking they are going to learn a lot, but are just shown the barebones basics (depending on class size). What I find scarier is when I go in for requalification & run across people who have in theory passed before elswhere with multiple calibers & who can't hit the target or are all over the place on it (not that I am a 'crack' shot, but I manage), or can't follow the range instructions, (the instructor has bounced people out forcefully) or bring in weapons that don't function correctly.