Speak to the anti's nicely....

[diginit]

Hope you like reading...Please use tact when responding to an anti's statement. It may actually help! This is my conversation with a Brady supporter. There may be more to follow...If she responds to my last message...Please pay attention to her posts and ignore my drunken rants...

James SmithApril 14 at 6:27pm
You have the same name as my mother. Rather rare. Everyone that knew her said she was one of the nicest people they ever met. I have been called the same. I was simply raised to know right from wrong.
I must agree that guns in the wrong hands are a very bad thing. People with no self control or an aggressive or physco personalities should not have one. But those laws are already on the books. Including known gang members. It is already illegal for them to own a gun. But they still do! Criminals don't share our morals and will continue to take advantage of the defenceless. Englands' and Austrailias' recent crime rates should be proof enough to any educated person. Even if all guns are banned, There are instructions available online on how to make a $10 zip gun that will shoot glass, nails, screws, or anything else the criminal can put into a piece of pipe. I, personally, would rather be shot with a bullet than a broken bottle. At least a bullet can be found by a doctor. Glass cannot. Sticks, Rocks, sissors, etc. Would still be used to attack the defenceless.
I have been jumped twice by 2 jerks each time. My girlfriend was very grateful that they didn't toss me over the overpass and take her as per their plan.
You seem like an educated person. Please review the facts before you voice an opinion. Criminals will continue to kill people no matter what and we will just be defenceless targets for highwaymen. Even our forefathers knew this would not change. Ever... You're smart, Think about it... I think it all started with a serpent and a bite from an apple from a forbidden tree. And as much as you or I would like it too, It will never change. Thanks for your time. James





Elly Malka FadenApril 14 at 8:48pm Report
Hi. Well, thank for the nice tone. It's REALLY hard to talk to die-hard (excuse the expression) gun-proponents. Sometimes, they seem SO angry that you think that if they had a gun right there, they would shoot you. That kind of goes against what they are saying, and it doesn't seem logical to me.

Also, thanks for the complements. In successful communication, they are a very effective means of getting someone to listen.

Well, a gun behind every blade of grass is a bit much for me. As a single mom (kids well out of the nest) I have to be very careful about where I go and when. We all learn that we may get jumped or mugged or shot anywhere - every single one of us. So, we try to earn enough money to live in a safe place, not go out at bad times or in bad neighborhoods, and live safely. Sometimes, that's not enough. The criminals and lunies are out there.

All in all, I just feel that fighting for less guns and more control makes more sense than owning a gun and learning how to use it. I have amazing eye-hand coordination and have gone practice shooting. But, I'm NOT good in emergencies. If I had a gun and had to defend myself, I might shoot myself, or an innocent bystander, or whoever...so, I'm sticking with the position that less guns, more regulation, and trying to stay safe is better.

Thank you for the discourse, James.






James SmithApril 14 at 10:07pm
I complemented you because I know a dummy when I see one and you didn't fit the bill. I'n not an exceptional speaker, Just a carpenter with knowledge of the real world.
In a way you are right, In another I feel you are incorrect. If you practice, using a firearm. It is as instinctive as using a pen or typing. I can hit a shotgun shell on the ground at 25' from a quickdraw without using the sights. It is fun and entertaining. We all hope we never have to use this skill upon another person. Even if the jerk deserves it and killing them may save another innocent person from death or worse, Living with being taken unwantedly...I wish to harm no one, Ever! But have and will defend anyone that needs it.
Regulation in Ca is getting stupid. It allows criminals to carry and leaves honest citizens either defenceless or makes them felons. It makes NO sense to turn someone that would defend any stranger into a criminal and to allow a true felon to do what they want. And we do have a right under the constitution to keep and bear arms. Although some attempt to misconscrew it's meaning, It is written in plain english.
I own and shoot 8 guns. None have and hopefully willl never harm anyone, But one has saved my life on a country road on a foggy night, miles from the nearest ranch where 4x4's were set up in both lanes to stop traffic and ambush anyone caught in the trap. If I wasn't legally loaded open carrying a 1911, I would have been dead. Luckily, 2 warning shots into a cliff and a few loud obsenities detoured my attackers. Most crooks are cowards and prey upon the weak. Don't be weak. If you are scared, don't show it. Be aware of your surroundings at ALL times, And give criminals what they would give you. A painful death.
Limiting honest people from the ability to defend themselves or others in not the answer. I know from real life experiences. I'm lucky to be 49 yrs old. and would like to see 60. I hate to say that I will be armed, and would rather be caught with it than without it. If I have to become a criminal in order to defend myself and those I love, So be it. I know the criminal mind and refuse to be a victim. Hope you can understand. The thought of getting shot is the ONLY thing that keeps crooks out of your home at night. Law Enforcement is 20 min. away and they have no responsibility to proctect you as a citized. A Supreme Court Decision. LE is here to proctect the interests of the city they serve and to enforce the laws. Period. Doesn't that make you feel safe? Especially if you or your friends can't own a firearm for self defence and criminals have already illegal fully automatic weapons or zip guns that are untraceable and shoot glass at 900 FPS? Just ask the 2 women that were beaten and raped for 2 days and called the police twice only to have them drive by and say that the lights weren't on so they thought no one was home.
Please do some more research of the facts.
and leave the hype to the politicians that no one believes anyways... You may be safer if you know the truth. And I hope you are. James.






Elly Malka FadenApril 14 at 10:39pm Report
Well, interesting point of view. It shows me that even men are afraid of harm. As a woman, I cannot do many of the things men do, such as travel alone to a foreign country. Once, a friend said I should go explore Mexico like he did. He's really tall and big. I don't think so!

So, I guess I rely on the men I know to help. I can call my best guy friend or my son if something goes wrong. But, I still know that I would NOT be able to handle a gun in a scary situation - I would just freak out. I think I would rather suffer the consequences.

All of the names of the weapons you mentioned are completely foreign to me. I know nothing about them. I am in the Brady Campaign because there was a dangerous firearm in my home. Since joining, I have met parents and victims of gun violence. There, but for the grace of God, go I.






James SmithApril 15 at 9:00pm
No, Not afraid, I just refuse to be a victim. I am a carpenter and have had alot of stitches, tendon grafts, and the like. 8 stitches in my left arm, 12 in my right, 50 on my left hand, 8 on my left cheek (the face part...) 15 in my left shoulder and 14 in my right hip. Pain is not a problem. It's more like an old friend.
You say you depend upon others to defend you. Well, Honest people that carry guns legally are the people that will do that. Of course, a criminal will do just the opposite. Don't be afraid of guns, Just be aware of crooks. And pray there is a good person nearby with a gun that is willing to put their life on the line to help a stranger if needed. Ignoring the court related and mental complications in the aftermath. Not to just walk by saying they didn't want to get involved...and leave you to die. I believe in God also and live by the 10. But even the bible says that we should not allow those of no faith to ravage us. God may be the judge, But he left it up to us to take care of each other on earth and he gave us the knowledge and tools to do it. One of which is the gun. Like words, they can bring pain or enjoyment to our lives. Just depends how they are used. Take care, James

[Shere Khan]

Misconscrew? Freudian much?

[G1500]

I usually reply to them based on how they talk to me. If they act like an ***, I will kindly do the same.

[jshoebot]

You should really point out to her the fallacy in her argument. So because she doesn't think she can handle a gun, or defend herself effectively, she wants to disarm the rest of us who can and will defend ourselves? That's pretty wrong. She claims to be a Christian, yet she wants to take away our human rights given to us by God.

She is also projecting. She said she thinks a gunowner will shoot her if the gunowner had a gun on them while arguing with her. Why would she think that? Is that what she would do if she got flustered in a conversation?

[fred40]

This lady is a fvkkn idiot. She will rather suffer the consequences? She won't travel to Mexico? Aren't guns illegal in Mexico. She should feel safe right.

[ADAM]

This lady is a fvkkn idiot. She will rather suffer the consequences? She won't travel to Mexico? Aren't guns illegal in Mexico. She should feel safe right.

this

[brushfire21]

Love the illogic logic by those that that have misinformation and take one one person or group pitches. It's called being a sheeple I think.

Great convo to the OP!

[Rivers]

If I was built like Hulk Hogan in his prime, I still wouldn't travel through Mexico. AK47's and machetes don't care. I prefer to keep my head perched upon my breathing torso, thank you.

The point that the conversation didn't cover is that while she has the CHOICE to not have guns in her house or on her person, she is advocating to REMOVE that choice from everyone else. Because she isn't comfortable with the idea. It's the concept that a few - with admittedly prejudiced views - determine what is best for everyone, knowing that some (the bad guys) won't comply and will prey on those who do obey the law.

[23 Blast]

I used to frequent a website that was about 90% women, over 60% of those from abroad (mainly the UK), and about 80% liberals - some rabidly so. I used to get into a lot of very interesting debates over there, many times about guns. One girl was so venemously anti-gun that she essentially equated gun ownership with being evil. (Shes this young girl from the UK who also advocates sterilization and other more draconian measures to control population) , but I digress. Anyway, in the course of our "debate" - I just basically convinced her that guns, all by themselves, are no worse than a knife, baseball bat, hammer, crowbar, or any other implement in the hands of someone who intends to do you harm. Heck, a sufficiently motivated man can beat someone (especially a small girl like herself) to death using nothing more than their fists and feet, but a gun, in the hands of a weaker person, is a fantastic equalizer. It puts a small girl like her on equal footing as a large, male criminal.

She typically responded with the old "you can fight using your kitchen knives, barstools, rolling pin, etc. - you don't have to have a gun to fight back!" She added further - anybody with sense knows to avoid trouble by not going to iffy places at night, or staying out of certain neighborhoods altogether!" I agreed that sensible people never go looking for trouble, and indeed take all necessary steps to avoid it completely if possible, but sometimes, trouble comes looking for you. I asked her how she thinks she would fate with her kitchen knives and barstools against a man outweighing her by 50 or more pounds, and she reluctantly agreed that gun ownership isn't a black-white proposition, and that it depends on the user, but she still thought that "instruments designed to do nothing else but kill" were bad for society.

[Mikeb]

"She added further - anybody with sense knows to avoid trouble by not going to iffy places at night, or staying out of certain neighborhoods altogether!"

Yeah well I've lived in that neighborhood for 25 years and I am more comfortable owning guns.
take care
Mike

[Merovign]

A few people can be convinced to consider their opinions. 50% of the time the reason they hold those opinions is not the reason they tell you, and you're wasting your breath. 40% of the time, the opinion is just part of a "community belief structure," and you're wasting your breath. IMO.

I used to spend a *lot* of time on that debate, almost no one changes their mind.

This woman lives with a lot of mythology, and insulting mythology at that. It's sad, but good luck changing it.

Though it should be done gently, sometimes, bigotry (all x are evil, I'm afraid gun owners are going to shoot me, etc) does need to be challenged. Just point it out if it runs contrary to your experience (and history in general). A lot of beliefs about politics are driven by rude assumptions.

One of the key anti-gun "debate strategies" is to say sometime so outrageously false that it spurs an angry response, thus "proving" you to be an angry person, and dangerous. People who do that are not reachable and it's best to just explain to them at that point that they're manipulative, intractable bigots and you'd prefer to avoid dealing with such unpleasant people.

I don't have the energy for it like I used to, I got tired of pounding my head against that wall.

[ElvenSoul]

I simply don"t talk to them...why waste my breath?

[mif_slim]

Haha, nice conversation.

I would if been like:

UR an idiot!! Go crawl into a cave and lock yourself in FOREVER!!!

Jk .

[PyroFox79]

Well this is just an example of how we should act overall as a community towards those who either do not like or simply have had no exposure to firearms. Well done!

[Shere Khan]

I had this conversation a few years ago (BEFORE I got back into shooting. I could easily sum it up thusly.

1). The good, honest, mentally stable & hardworking gun owners of this country will NEVER intentionally harm you. But the gun owning criminal element out there will.

2). If you banned all sales of both firearms AND ammo for law abiding citizens tommorow morning at 6 am, there will still be over 300 million firearms out here in America, and probably a billion pounds of ammo. And there would be almost nothing anyone on Earth could do to rein them a in. So be happy that 'us normal' people can still own firearms legally.