SF Reloading Components Restrictions

[dfletcher]

I recently tried to order reloading components from Midway - bullets only, not loaded ammo or powder or primers - only to receive their "it's prohibited" notice. These are the only folks I've had a problem with - Grafs, MidSouth or Lock, Stock & barrel are fine. Is anyone specifically aware of a SF city or county restriction on the mail order delivery of reloading components such as bullets or brass? This is not a major problem, although sometimes when Midway has everything I need, minus being able to by bullets, I have to do a 2nd order to Grafs.

Just FYI - friend of mine in South SF tried to order ammo on line only to be told he could not since he was in "San Francisco". Took a good deal of explaining when he called & told them SSF isn't part of SF - not even in the same county. He still can't order on line because that zip code is according to Midway's computer set up part of SF, so he has to call in the order.

[grammaton76]

Wow. Midway's one of the vendors that doesn't sweat about sending AR parts to CA. It'll suck if they're starting to go the cheaperthandirt route...

[timmy8151]

Midway would not sell me ammo, because the address on my Credit card was in San Francisco. They were nice about it but said that they could not sell ammo or components to people in SF.

[CavTrooper]

Just got off the phone with the people at midwayusa.com . The info I recived from them is that according to the CA AGs office, ammunition and component sales is restricted in SF. While they could not find anywhere a regulation or law cited as reference, they were informed by the AGs office and so they will not sell to SF. They did ask that if I was to find any info to contrary, that I contact and refer them to that info.
So, is ammo and component sales restricted in SF by law?
any info youd like to pass on to them will go through customer service, be sure to headline "Ammunition sales to San Fransico, CA"
customerservice@midway.com

[dfletcher]

Just got off the phone with the people at midwayusa.com . The info I recived from them is that according to the CA AGs office, ammunition and component sales is restricted in SF. While they could not find anywhere a regulation or law cited as reference, they were informed by the AGs office and so they will not sell to SF. They did ask that if I was to find any info to contrary, that I contact and refer them to that info.
So, is ammo and component sales restricted in SF by law?
any info youd like to pass on to them will go through customer service, be sure to headline "Ammunition sales to San Fransico, CA"
customerservice@midway.com

"Any info to the contrary?" What the heck are we to do - get a letter from the state AG that says there's no law against sending reloading components to SF? They want us to get in writing something that states a certain law doesn't exist?

I've sent an e-mail response to the Midway CSR I was dealing with (Bill) asking him to make a bit of a pitch on our behalf. If there is no restriction - and assuming Midway did not for some legal reason enter into an agreement with the city/state AG - I don't see why the company would not reconsider their position.

[CavTrooper]

ARTICLE 36A. [SALE, MANUFACTURE AND DISTRIBUTION OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION; POSSESSION OF HANDGUNS]
and Ammunition; Possession of Handguns]



Sec. 3600A. Statement of Findings and Text of Ordinance Prohibiting the Sale, Manufacture and Distribution of Firearms and Ammunition in the City and County of San Francisco and Limiting the Possession of Handguns in the City and County of San Francisco.

Sec. 3601A. Penalty for Sale, Distribution, Transfer, and Manufacture of Firearms and Ammunition or Possession of Handguns Within City and County of San Francisco.

SEC. 3600A. STATEMENT OF FINDINGS AND TEXT OF ORDINANCE PROHIBITING THE SALE, MANUFACTURE AND DISTRIBUTION OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION IN THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO AND LIMITING THE POSSESSION OF HANDGUNS IN THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO.

This ordinance is enacted to implement an initiative ordinance approved by the electors of San Francisco as Proposition "H" at the election held on November 8, 2005. The provisions of Proposition "H" are set forth herein for convenience and may only be amended as provided by law. Proposition "H" reads as follows:

"Section 1. Findings

The people of the City and County of San Francisco hereby find and declare:

1. Handgun violence is a serious problem in San Francisco. According to a San Francisco Department of Public Health report published in 2002, 176 handgun incidents in San Francisco affected 213 victims in 1999, the last year for which data is available. Only 26.8% of firearms were recovered. Of all firearms used to cause injury or death, 67% were handguns.

2. San Franciscans have a right to live in a safe and secure City. The presence of handguns poses a significant threat to the safety of San Franciscans.

3. It is not the intent of the people of the City and County of San Francisco to affect any resident of other jurisdictions with regard to handgun possession, including those who may temporarily be within the boundaries of the City and County.

4. Article XI of the California Constitution provides Charter created counties with the "home rule" power. This power allows counties to enact laws that exclusively apply to residents within their borders, even when such a law conflicts with state law or when state law is silent. San Francisco adopted its most recent comprehensive Charter revision in 1996.

5. Since it is not the intent of the people of the City and County of San Francisco to impose an undue burden on inter-county commerce and transit, the provisions of Section 3 apply exclusively to residents of the City and County of San Francisco.

"Section 2. Ban on Sale, Manufacture, Transfer or Distribution of Firearms in the City and County of San Francisco

Within the limits of the City and County of San Francisco, the sale, distribution, transfer and manufacture of all firearms and ammunition shall be prohibited.

"Section 3. Limiting Handgun Possession in the City and County of San Francisco

Within the limits of the City and County of San Francisco, no resident of the City and County of San Francisco shall possess any handgun unless required for professional purposes, as enumerated herein. Specifically, any City, state or federal employee carrying out the functions of his or her government employment, including but not limited to peace officers as defined by California Penal Code Section 830 et. seq. and animal control officers may possess a handgun. Active members of the United States armed forces or the National Guard and security guards, regularly employed and compensated by a person engaged in any lawful business, while actually employed and engaged in protecting and preserving property or life within the scope of his or her employment, may also possess handguns. Within 90 days from the effective date of this Section, any resident of the City and County of San Francisco may surrender his or her handgun at any district station of the San Francisco Police Department, or to the San Francisco Sheriff's Department without penalty under this section.

"Section 4. Effective Date

This ordinance shall become effective January 1, 2006.

"Section 5. Penalties

Within 90 days of the effective date of this Section, the Board of Supervisors shall enact penalties for violations of this ordinance. The Mayor, after consultation with the District Attorney, Sheriff and Chief of Police shall, within 30 days from the effective date, provide recommendations about penalties to the Board.

"Section 6. State Law

Nothing in this ordinance is designed to duplicate or conflict with California State Law. Accordingly, any person currently denied the privilege of possessing a handgun under state law shall not be covered by this ordinance, but shall be covered by the California state law which denies that privilege. Nothing in this ordinance shall be construed to create or require any local license or registration for any firearm, or create an additional class of citizens who must seek licensing or registration.

"Section 7. Severability

If any provision of this ordinance or the application thereof to any person or circumstances is held invalid or unconstitutional, such invalidity or unconstitutionality shall not affect other provisions or applications or this ordinance which can be given effect without the invalid or unconstitutional provision or application. To this end, the provisions of this ordinance shall be deemed severable.

"Section 8. Amendment

By a two-thirds vote and upon making findings, the Board of Supervisors may amend this ordinance in the furtherance of reducing handgun violence."

(Added by Ord. 55-06, File No. 060151, App. 3/31/2006)

SEC. 3601A. PENALTY FOR SALE, DISTRIBUTION, TRANSFER, AND MANUFACTURE OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION OR POSSESSION OF HANDGUNS WITHIN CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO.

(a) In enacting Proposition "H" the voters required the Board of Supervisors to enact penalties for its violation. The following sections set forth the penalties for violation of Proposition H.

(b) Any person who shall violate the provisions of Police Code Section 3600A that prohibit the sale, distribution, transfer and manufacture of all firearms and ammunition within the limits of the City and County of San Francisco or that prohibit the possession of any handgun within the limits of the City and County of San Francisco shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $1,000 and by imprisonment in the County Jail not to exceed six months, or by both.

(c) Any firearm or ammunition sold, distributed, transferred, or manufactured or any handgun possessed within the City and County of San Francisco in violation of the provisions of Police Code Section 3600A is hereby declared to be a nuisance, and shall be surrendered to the Police Department of the City and County of San Francisco. The Chief of Police is authorized to seize such firearms, ammunition and handguns and shall destroy or cause to be destroyed such firearms, ammunition and handguns, except upon the certificate of a judge of a court of record, or of the District Attorney that the preservation thereof is necessary or proper to the ends of justice.

(d) This Section shall be enforced to the full extent of the authority of the City and County of San Francisco. If any subsection, sentence, clause, phrase, or word of this Section or the application thereof to any person or circumstances is held invalid or unconstitutional, such invalidity or unconstitutionality shall not affect other provisions or applications of this Section which can be given effect without the invalid or unconstitutional provision or application. To this end, the provisions of this section shall be deemed severable.

(Added by Ord. 55-06, File No. 060151, App. 3/31/2006)

Sale and manufacture of ammo is a no-no, while it says nothing about sale of components, its probably enough to warrant not selling them to anyone whos home adress is in SF. If you live in SF and are reloading at home are you violating the law by "manufacturing" ammo?
On an aside, they did tell me that they do not sell any CA restricted items to ANYONE in CA that includes LEA. Accoring to midway, people have tried to buy hi-cap pistol and rifle mags for "thier department", but since they are a CA restricted item, they wont sell them to CA.. regardless.
Good stuff if its true.

[dfletcher]

Proposition H - although approved by the voters - was deemed unconsitutional and tossed out. So the above should not have the force of law - correct?

I've read through my ATF book and the section for SF Police Code (Article 9, para 618 a - e) mentions record keeping for loaded ammunition only. There is nothing regarding reloading components.

[M. Sage]

Right. That entire law has been tossed into the garbage where it belongs. It shouldn't be shown as on the books anymore, should it?

[grammaton76]

Ah. Sounds like they're taking notes from the folks who insist that 50 BMG rounds are a felony to possess...

[rksimple]

When I lived in SF, I ordered from Midsouth shooters supply. They shipped right to my door. I also made a big order from Powder Valley of 32 lbs of powder. Shipped it no questions asked.

[dfletcher]

When I lived in SF, I ordered from Midsouth shooters supply. They shipped right to my door. I also made a big order from Powder Valley of 32 lbs of powder. Shipped it no questions asked.

My experience also - I just ordered a bunch of reloading stuff from MidSouth & Grafs to go with my new Encore pistol barrel in 260 Remington.

[Slamer]

I went through this excercise with Midway several months ago...i talked to a "supervisor" she said she would get back to me...Spoke to her a couple times since...She said she would get me an answer or legal dept. would get back to me...That was 2 months ago still no answer...I've given up and won't do business with Midway.

[rivviepop]

Have you considered asking them to ship to Jackson's Arms in SSF, then picking it up from there? Maybe since it's a FFL place they might hook you up...

[dfletcher]

Have you considered asking them to ship to Jackson's Arms in SSF, then picking it up from there? Maybe since it's a FFL place they might hook you up...

No - I really don't want to go there when I can get items sent to my door by all the other companies. I get the feeling Midway's approach is they don't know why they won't ship reloading supplies to SF, that's just the way it's been and they don't have a whole lot of interest in changing it. I'm leaning towards not doing any business with them since they can't seem to be bothered getting a definite reason.