Cop Killer Bullets: Has it ever happened?

[BDH]

Many years ago, KTW bullets (teflon coated) were decried as "cop killer" bullets. Legislation followed and they were outlawed. If memory serves me, only one officer was killed with one, and it was a shot to the head. It wouldn't have made a bit of difference if he were wearing 3 vests.
Bruce

[bodger]

I guess the takeaway here is that in the last 10 years, save for 1, no cop in the entire United States has ever been killed by getting shot through his vest.

Which is what makes this proposed law even more ludicrous that AB962.

Deleon is just a fear mongering nancy boy who doesn't like to lose, so he trots out "COP KILLER" and enlists the aid of Charlie Beck and Baca and he's off to the races.

After AB962 got s**tcanned, this bill is an "Oh yeah, well take THIS!" to the Second Amendment and to gunnies like us.

[Rob454]

It wasn't the police officers who were upset the ammo was out. In fact they were upset it was pulled because they liked carrying it. it is available today and has been for years as Winchester "Ranger" ammunition which is black talon without the "sharp star points of the jacket".

The group that did make an issue of the round as I remember were the Emergency room doctors and nurses, who claimed that the bullets created an undue safety hazard to them when removing them from perps...the risk of getting cut (thru surgical gloves) while operating inside a patient's body, many of whom are infected with among other things, HIV and Hepatitis.

I have heard that the 7.62 x 25 tokerev was capable of defeating soft body armor when firing steel-core ammunition in 7.62x25 that si commonly available internationally. In the United States the importation of 7.62x25 cartridges loaded with copper-coated steel bullets is illegal; federal law defines these as armor-piercing pistol ammunition.

Well I was about 9 years old back then. i just remember Black talon and whole bunch of cops making a big deal of it when we watched the news.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Specifically what I'm asking about is your 'typical' handgun calibers, those being 9mm, .45ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, and others...

ANSWER: Everytime a cop is murdered by ANY TYPE of bullet, that in and of itself is now a "cop killer" bullet.

I try to keep that debate plain and simple.

[Dr Rockso]

The following is a description of the "2005 incident" previously discussed, and the only incident between 1987 and 2009 in which the FBI lists as a felonious killing of a law enforcement officer by a handgun in which the officer's body armor was penetrated:

Sergeant Kevin Scott Knight
From the following document:

http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc07-748/07-748ini.pdf

Bailey shot the officer as he approached the car to make the arrest. Bailey fired three quick shots from the car window. Two shots struck the officer in the shoulder area through a weaker portion of the officer's protective vest. The medical examiner stated that if the wounds had been straight through, the wounds would not have been life-threatening. The angle of the officer leaning forward allowed the bullets to travel into the chest cavity causing the fatal wounds.

No indication that the ammunition was anything out of the ordinary, simply a tragic concurrence of events (hit in a weak portion of the vest, plus Sgt. Knight's leaned-over body position at the time of the shooting).

[Dr Rockso]

From all of the FBI's UCR reports, as listed on their website, this is the only event of its kind since 1987.







So the final breakdown from 1987-2009 is:

• Rifle:
  .223 Caliber x 8
  .30-06 Caliber x 3
  .30-30 Caliber x 5
  .300 Caliber x 1
  .308 Caliber x 1
  5.56 Millimeter x 1
  7 Millimeter x 2
  7.62x39 Millimeter x 11
  .30 Caliber x 4
  
• Handgun:
  9 Millimeter x 1

Thanks to tonb for pointing this thread in the right direction. If anyone else has any data (specifically things such as officers injured but not killed after being shot through their vests, or data prior to 1987), or thoughts on how to find more data, please post.

[MontClaire]

While you all engage in useless theory as to pertaining to substance of proposed ban.....you fail to understand what's really going on here. The rug has been pulled off right under our feet. They just keep dragging.......By the time you wake up- you'll be a herd of sheep waiting in line to show enough credits to buy food.

[tonb]

While you all engage in useless theory as to pertaining to substance of proposed ban.....you fail to understand what's really going on here. The rug has been pulled off right under our feet. They just keep dragging.......By the time you wake up- you'll be a herd of sheep waiting in line to show enough credits to buy food.

Harsh lol

But I think it is you who is actually missing the point of the discussion. We all very clearly understand exactly what is going on here, but how can you even enter a fight with no knowledge of the subject matter other than your own colored opinion?

[Cali-Shooter]

Cop Killer Bullets in handgun? Yes it has happened. In Lethal Weapon 3.

[timmyb21]

Wait, so I can't buy any M855 5.56 ammo, I thought it was just illegal to use? I want some to prepare for the Skynet Terminator invasion, cuz, you know, zombies are ridiculous.

[Dr Rockso]

While you all engage in useless theory as to pertaining to substance of proposed ban.....you fail to understand what's really going on here. The rug has been pulled off right under our feet. They just keep dragging.......By the time you wake up- you'll be a herd of sheep waiting in line to show enough credits to buy food.

Kindly stay out of the thread if you have nothing to add, thanks.

[negolien]

Remember the Bank Shoot out.. not only were some of those rounds AP but it shows the damage that can be done when people are left to do whatever they want. A little give and take is fine for me in gun laws. I can understand where the Medical professionals were coming from. To be honest the medical people are another group that's highly protective of civil rights soo goes to show you. Alot of points on both sides should = a compromise that not only makes both sides happy but provides common sense enforceable rules and regs.

Unfortunate it seems to me that both sides are only digging in their heels and becoming more and more partisan almost like the political system in this country.

[Reductio]

Wait, so I can't buy any M855 5.56 ammo, I thought it was just illegal to use? I want some to prepare for the Skynet Terminator invasion, cuz, you know, zombies are ridiculous.

You can buy M855, it's not pistol AP ammo. Actually, the BATF doesn't even consider it AP ammo at all...

[nick]

Remember the Bank Shoot out.. not only were some of those rounds AP

Any rifle round other than .22lr is going to penetrate the Level IIIa body armor cops normally wear. It doesn't have to be the super-special-lethal-terrible AP rounds.

Moreover, if you actually look at the data (you know, real data, as opposed to emotions) the people in this thread used, it would appear that there is NO significant legitimate government interest in passing this law. There was 1 (one) case nationwide of an officer killed with handgun ammo that penetrated body armor in over 23 years, and it was likely regular ammo to begin with and a set of unfortunate circumstances. So aside from emotions and malicious intent (restricting liberties without a good enough reason to do so), in your opinion, what's the good reason for this law?

but it shows the damage that can be done when people are left to do whatever they want.

I know, it's terrible. One day they'll think they have rights, and then it'll really go downhill.

A little give and take is fine for me in gun laws. I can understand where the Medical professionals were coming from. To be honest the medical people are another group that's highly protective of civil rights soo goes to show you. Alot of points on both sides should = a compromise that not only makes both sides happy but provides common sense enforceable rules and regs.

A little compromise is what got us to where we are. There're times and cases for compromise, but compromising with someone whose end-goal is not finding a lasting compromise (rather, a compromise is just the means of getting a better bargaining position for the future), but the complete prohibition on guns, is just plain stupid. If you look at the history of gun control, it's a series of incremental "compromises", with the "common sense" goals being moved further and further away from, well, common sense.

Unfortunate it seems to me that both sides are only digging in their heels and becoming more and more partisan almost like the political system in this country.

Well, it's past time we dug in our heels. I don't know if you noticed the state of the gun laws of late, but given what they are, it's obvious the compromises of the past didn't work out too well. Now, what do you call doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?

[cmichini]

How about they try to deal with facts?

A cop killer bullet is the one that is removed after a tragedy occurs (LEO slain). Other than that it's code for those against the 2nd amendment trying to incrementally infringe on people's rights.