Magazine rebuild kits clarification

[ruchik]

So I checked out the FAQ's regarding rebuild kits and high capacity magazines, and I had a few questions regarding the ins and outs.

1. Is possession of a large capacity magazine illegal?

No. Possession of a large-capacity magazine is NOT illegal, no matter how you got it or when you got it.

-This part makes no sense to me. From my understanding, it's legal to own and use a high capacity magazine no matter how or when you got it, but assembling new rebuild kits into a high capacity magazine is illegal? If it's not required to possess any kind of documentation showing how I acquired the magazines, then how does anyone know they were built or acquired illegally? Since I don't own any pre-ban high cap mags, it's like saying I can't buy/make a new high capacity magazine, but it's legal to own and use it. Basically, I can eat the cake, but buying or making one is illegal?

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

It doesn't have to make sense (the law was created by the California legislature, after all - a body not terribly concerned with making sense, it seems). The Penal Code clearly states what constitutes a criminal act regarding "large capacity" magazines:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

(1) (omitted - not relevant)

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

The acts noted in bold are prohibited. Anything else is not. As the word "possession" does not appear in the code, mere possession of a "large capacity" magazine is not prohibited. It is the burden of the State to prove that a person has done that which is prohibited, not the burden of the accused to disprove the accusation. That's the definition of "innocent until proven guilty". For a discussion of what evidence might be used to prove that a person had committed one or more of the above enumerated acts, consult an attorney. FAQs and Internet discussions are oftentimes less than satisfactory places to obtain legal advice. A searchable database of California legal codes may be found here.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

Basically, I can eat the cake, but buying or making one is illegal?

That's it precisely. Nicely put.

[Exile Machine]

Basically, I can eat the cake, but buying or making one is illegal?

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

[Matt C]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

LOL

[xXBigJoeXx]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

[joefreas]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

LOL Well stated-

[Librarian]

At Calguns, we recognize that the law on cake is peculiar, but we never suggest or admit illegally acquiring cake. Such posts get deleted.

[IrishPirate]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

oh wow.......that's the funniest thing i've read in a long time!!!!!


OP, you can't be charged with possession of hi-caps. Even if they caught you importing them and then putting them together (manufacturing), they can only charge you with importing and manufacturing because your possession of them is not a crime. If you bought one from a store, the store owner and clerk would have be guilty of a crime, but you wouldn't. Buying isn't illegal, but selling is. If you find someone stupid enough to sell you hi-caps, be weary, but also know that buying isn't illegal. (of course there are people who will say that you'd be guilty of conspiracy to commit a crime, and that's why i say be weary, but so far i don't think that's ever been successfully litigated)

Think about what you're risking though. There's a chance that we can get the mag limit law overturned soon. Is it worth risking your gun rights to be able to shoot a few more rounds without swapping mags? be patient and if you must, stock up on cheap rebuild kits and wait until you can legally build them in CA.

[stix213]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

Exile wins the thread!

[joefreas]

Exile wins the thread!

I didn't know it was a contest?

[L4D]

I didn't know it was a contest?

It wasn't until he entered it, and then won it. kudo's

[ruchik]

Ah I see. So what would be the difference between using a high capacity magazine in an "evil" rifle or bullet-buttoned rifle as opposed to a featureless one? I imagine the same rules apply, but you wouldn't be charged with owning/using an assault weapon if used in the featureless rifle?

[DaveFJ80]

there's nothing worse than stale cake....

[Sniper3142]

It's worse than that. You can buy the cake, you can eat the cake, but it's illegal for anyone to sell you the cake. You can't bring the cake across state lines unless you bring it in as raw ingredients. Once in the state the ingredients can't be baked into a new cake unless you are using that cake to rebuild a legally-owned cake that's gone stale, or if you permanently bake the ingredients into harmless little cupcakes.

One of the best explanations ever!



Mmmm..... cupcakes...