Does your FFL charge you sales tax?

[sd1023x]

Is there any real life examples of gunstores being dinged by the BOE for the tax? How would BOE even track it down? They would have to audit the gun store and the customer, seems kind of ludicrous. Lots of gunstores that have been around for a while that don't charge tax and they are still open?

Support gunstores that don't collect the tax!

[J-cat]

According to BOE, if the out of state retailer exports more than 5 guns a year to CA, then the receiving FFL needs to collect the tax. If you are getting the gun from a private individual, and said individual has not exported more than 5 guns to CA in a 12 month period, then the FFL cannot collect the tax.

[FLIGHT762]

Don't f*ck with the tax man, he'll shut you down and throw your a*s in jail... And stop being whiney b*tches about the dealers that follow the law.

Amen.

[PhantomII]

The only FFL near me charges $200 for doing any mail-order/internet DROS transactions, so it doesn't matter whether or not he charges sales tax.

I'm not going to do any on-line buying.

[razr]

Yes, they should since it goes on their books. Some though have a flat fee of 100 bucks or so.

[Ford8N]

My kitchen table FFL charges a flat $30 and the coffee is free.

[jtmkinsd]

Is there any real life examples of gunstores being dinged by the BOE for the tax? How would BOE even track it down? They would have to audit the gun store and the customer, seems kind of ludicrous. Lots of gunstores that have been around for a while that don't charge tax and they are still open?

Support gunstores that don't collect the tax!

YES...BOE can find out about it in many different ways...for instance, just keep mentioning an FFL on here who doesn't charge the tax...I guarantee you they will get a "random" audit of the last 3 years. Sadly, another way is for a competitor to "drop a dime" on them to the BOE...again, they will get a "random" audit of the last 3 years. It has happened, is happening, and will happen...so for all the whiners who say they'll "take their business elsewhere", that's fine, but sooner or later you'll run out of FFL's.

[sd1023x]

YES...BOE can find out about it in many different ways...for instance, just keep mentioning an FFL on here who doesn't charge the tax...I guarantee you they will get a "random" audit of the last 3 years. Sadly, another way is for a competitor to "drop a dime" on them to the BOE...again, they will get a "random" audit of the last 3 years. It has happened, is happening, and will happen...so for all the whiners who say they'll "take their business elsewhere", that's fine, but sooner or later you'll run out of FFL's.

Sure, spread the FUD.....been into shooting for over 15 years in CA, never have paid such a tax, still plenty of good FFL's still around.

And I don't think 'yes' qualifies as an real life example of gunstore being put down by the BOE.

[dieselpower]

someone is going to pay the tax...to all the FFLs NOT charging tax...good luck with that when you are finally after several years handed a bill with late fees and interest.

[jtmkinsd]

Sure, spread the FUD.....been into shooting for over 15 years in CA, never have paid such a tax, still plenty of good FFL's still around.

And I don't think 'yes' qualifies as an real life example of gunstore being put down by the BOE.

By "good" I assume you mean the FFL's who will end up paying for your stinginess? Your wanting to avoid paying a tax burden the honest citizens have to pay?

I don't mention FFL's by name on this or any forum any more...unless it's someone simply looking for a service...DOJ, BOE, ATF ALL have eyes on these forums. I have knowledge of TWO FFL's who, up until recently, did not charge sales/use tax on internet purchases. They are both currently going through their "random" audits.

Oh, and by the way...congratulations on your career as a tax evader

[vega]

Sure, spread the FUD.....been into shooting for over 15 years in CA, never have paid such a tax, still plenty of good FFL's still around.

And I don't think 'yes' qualifies as an real life example of gunstore being put down by the BOE.

Then out with the FFLs who don't collect tax, CGers could sure use them. There's no problem naming them here right?

[meangreen46]

Sure, spread the FUD.....been into shooting for over 15 years in CA, never have paid such a tax, still plenty of good FFL's still around.

And I don't think 'yes' qualifies as an real life example of gunstore being put down by the BOE.

I've been shooting twice as long as you in CA and I have ALWAYS paid tax. If your FFL is willing to foot the tax for a gun you didn't even buy at their store....then by all means....keep going there. Judging by their ignorance of the BOE laws, they should be out of business in no time. Then, you'll have no neighborhood gun store to go to.

Along the same lines as jtmkinsd.....the stores I know that add tax are still in business. You pick the one you want to be associated with when the tax man comes knockin.

I will continue to say this: Stop ordering online and support your local stores. Do you think Buds Guns in Kentucky cares about your California gun rights? The local stores do. Unless you find some crazy deal out of state, keep it local.

End Rant

[Kceads]

BOTTOM LINE - Most don't charge sale tax so yes, I'm going to use the FFL that doesn't. More fire arm related regulations. I am trusted to reconcile all my other out of state purchases when filing my taxes but not fire arms; why is this. I'm sick of it!

We know most dealers don't like DROSing guns purchased else where and I suspect that the tax collected makes up for the lost margin and never sent to the IRS. This is the audit I would like to see.

[meangreen46]

This http://www.boe.ca.gov/business/Vol2/suta-q-s.pdf is the bottom line (unfortunately). Specifically sections 495.0843 & 495.0848. I don't like it as much as the next person...but it is what it is.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Ok, let this be a lesson to all dealers.

The BOE is clear that you are considered the retailer and must collect SALES TAX on all retail transactions through your gun shop. If Buds Gunshop sends you a firearm and you transfer it, you owe sales tax on that firearm.

Now the BOE is equally clear that you do not have to collect sales tax from your customers and it is optional whether you will collect a reimbursement for sales tax from your customers. Note the key here is the BOE permit holder is responsible, not the customer.

USE TAX is where you order something from out of state and you pay that USE TAX on your state income tax return at the end of the year. SALES TAX and USE TAX are not the same and are not interchangeable.

Now I charge $50 for any number of long guns transfered and for a single pistol. If I were not to collect the sales tax on the retail sale, then I would be losing money on any and all transfers whose purchase price exceeds $606. I would simply be breaking even at that price. Additionally, this is assuming I am not assessed penalties and interest for failing to pay my sales tax liability on time.

Personally, I have never heard of a real store ever getting audited. Some people claim stores do and some claim they don't. Personally, I don't care. What I care about is not incurring a huge sales tax liability for a customer that is going to be mine to pay with penalties and interest in the rare case I do get audited.

And this is where threads like this get interesting. Since we all know that we are supposed to pay our USE TAX on all out of state purchases (except occasional sales from private parties), the tax is supposed to get paid one way or another. The question dealers need to ask themselves is why would posters on Calguns get so upset about a dealer collecting sales tax that they would recommend you use your credit card and make a charge back, never use any FFL that ever charges SALES TAX on a transfer, or make blanket statements that all FFLs who do so are corrupt and are keeping the SALES TAX to pad their sales(*)?

The answer is these customers do not plan on paying their USE TAX. They want their guns cheaper and they want all SALES TAX liability for their cheating to fall squarely on your shoulders, which if you don't remit the SALES TAX, that is exactly where it will lie. If these posters were such upstanding, honest citizens, they would have no problems having the dealer collect the SALES TAX since it would be one less thing they have to worry about on their income taxes every year.

"Oh, I paid that SALES TAX to the gun shop and here is my receipt" in the case of an extremely rare BOE audit on the customer instead of "Yes tax man, I saved all of my receipts for all of my gun purchases and here they are" for every single gun you buy in a year.

So for those of you who don't like throwing your tax liability square on the shoulders of others, I am not sure if I would judge the complete operation of an FFL based on whether they collect SALES TAX or not. I like to follow the law and that is why I collect it. Now, if one of my competitors doesn't want to collect the SALES TAX (which I personally know some who don't) and you have no intention of paying the USE TAX which means you will get the gun cheaper, by all means use them. If you plan on paying the USE TAX anyway, then what is the difference? In that regard my shop is really no different than theirs and so hopefully you would judge a shop based on customer service, selection, and price.

Stating that you would never use a gun shop that charges SALES TAX on your taxable out of state transfer seems like faulty logic to me. Again, that would assume you plan on paying your USE TAX and that you aren't just trying to cheat the system at the expense of a business that is trying to follow the law. Stating you have no intention of paying the USE TAX and you are going to purchase the firearm from the cheapest source is a logical statement. It might not be rational considering you are breaking the law over probably less than $50 in taxes (quite rarely over $100), but hey, that is your decision to make.

For my gun shop, we don't assume other people's tax liability and we never will, no matter how much potential back taxes we build up.

(*)I use Quickbooks Point of Sale for all of my sales transactions. The amount of work required to void your transaction, remove the SALES TAX, and then create a new receipt where I leave the SALES TAX out is not worth it. Not to mention it would be pointless because in an audit the BOE would just look at all of my voided transactions and notice the originals had SALES TAX and the follow ups didn't. I would be in prison or paying out my rear for the rest of my life. Never mind collecting sales tax and not remitting it has to be the stupidest thing ever since the customer should have a receipt that shows SALES TAX was collected and that could be turned into the BOE and the BOE could quickly discover the SALES TAX was not remitted based on the sales receipt number showing a void.