My buddy called me and said his neighbor pointed a gun at him!

[Lone_Gunman]

Time for a CalGuns AK build/bring your guns and show 'em to us party.

[Ron-Solo]

Do you?

Like I said in my subsequent post, which you so conveniently ignored, I do not know for sure, and I am by NO means a legal expert, but I would think that unless the guy consented to having his house searched (intentionally or unintentionally), the cops had no right to enter his house and search it simply based on the word of one man. Let me say it again for you, in bold this time: I am not a legal expert, and I may be 100% incorrect..

ETA: It just really irks me if the story is true, because that means that I (a completely law-abiding gun owner) could conceivably be arrested and charged just because some anti-gunner finds out that I own guns and makes up some BS story about me threatening him or brandishing at him or telling him I'm gonna shoot him, etc etc...

There are many circumstances where a warrant is not required. There are not enough facts to make any determination, which was the whole point of my post.

Everyone seems to think they know all about search & seizure and if their actual knowledge was dynamite, they woudn't have enough to blow their nose.

[RogueSniper]

ETA: It just really irks me if the story is true, because that means that I (a completely law-abiding gun owner) could conceivably be arrested and charged just because some anti-gunner finds out that I own guns and makes up some BS story about me threatening him or brandishing at him or telling him I'm gonna shoot him, etc etc...

It can and does happen.

Be smart. Turn the tables on them. Be involved with police charities/events and become friends with the local police (buy them doughnuts if you have to). If they know who you are, they'll most likely not consider you a "threat" and any complaints would be a total misunderstanding.

The local police knows who I am. We're involved with CERT. I know the Police Captain and his wife. I grew up with most of the police officers. I had to get a background check done, and when the report came back from the Federal Database, it showed that I have registered firearms - impressed the hell out of the Sargent. I had to get my C&R, and that paperwork went through the local police, too. They know me - I'm not a threat. I'm a law abiding citizen with an expensive hobby.

Back to the thread.
OP - any news?

[9mmepiphany]

It just really irks me if the story is true, because that means that I (a completely law-abiding gun owner) could conceivably be arrested and charged just because some anti-gunner finds out that I own guns and makes up some BS story about me threatening him or brandishing at him or telling him I'm gonna shoot him, etc etc...

how about if: for some reason you feel that your neighbor is planning to do you harm because of some slight he feels that you have done to him. you see him with a gas can in his garage and see him cleaning his rifle and become concerned that he is going to fire bomb your house and shoot you as you run out.

You call the police to ward off his attack. Wouldn't you want the officers to go talk to your neighbor, just on your word...even if he is an otherwise law abiding citizen...and see whatever they could see/do? Should they look for other witnesses first...and failing to find any, leave until you are asleep and the attack occurs?

[shortround1]

That brings up an interesting question. What happened to due process? I would have been po'ed also. While I agree that TRO's are necessary most of the time, how in the world can your rights be taken from you based on an accusation?
Should this question be posted in the 2a thread?

I'm a big fan of personal rights and freedoms, but the police have to take such accusations seriously. They obviously can't ignore somebody claiming their neighbor pointed a gun at them. In any case, they probably asked the "accused" neighbor if they could enter his home and were probably given permission.

[xrMike]

There are many circumstances where a warrant is not required.

Yep, they call it "exigent circumstances". As long as the cops can articulate the circumstances sufficiently afterward, no-warrant searches are totally legal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exigent_circumstance_in_United_States_law

In the situation described, it's not unreasonable to claim that "imminent danger" exists if somebody was brandishing a pistol after a heated argument.

[zfields]

There are many circumstances where a warrant is not required. There are not enough facts to make any determination, which was the whole point of my post.

Everyone seems to think they know all about search & seizure and if their actual knowledge was dynamite, they woudn't have enough to blow their nose.

[Teddy]

...neighbor #2 could have had other compliants filed before....he could have invited the police inside...lots of details missing. But, yeah, might be a bit unnerving if they could just crack into the house because a neighbor said he was pointing a gun. My guess is when the police showed up there was enough visible evidence to see that the situation could certainly have occurred...upon further snooping they realize that neighbor#2 told them a blatant lie....now yer in trouble...

[viet4lifeOC]

What if you had a neighbor whom you didn't get along with..Neighbor knows you own guns. He calls the police and falsely accuses you of brandishing a handgun at him.

Does the police have the right to search your house? What evidence does the police need from the neighbor? And obviously the police will find handguns in your house...then what?

thanks

[Teddy]

What if you had a neighbor whom you didn't get along with..Neighbor knows you own guns. He calls the police and falsely accuses you of brandishing a handgun at him.

Does the police have the right to search your house? What evidence does the police need from the neighbor? And obviously the police will find handguns in your house...then what?

thanks

Well I'd guess that if you were a normal human being and you answered with a "sure officers, I have 5 firearms in my safe right here" and you open a safe with 5 firearms in it, all locked and secure....a simple "man, that guy tries to find anyway he can to get me in trouble....neighborly battles....I can assure you officer, I have a clean record, am responsible gun owner and do not point my firearms at others for entertainment".....you'd be just fine.



I actually had a really smart (sarcasm....) friend renting a room from me a while ago. Well, he got caught with some marijuana....actually trimming a plant (doh...smart guy!)...pretty much caught red handed by the local LEO's. (he was not at my house at the time) I get a knock on my door one day and there are two officers there asking about the roomate, they want to search his room in my house....they already have been told by him that he had firearms in his room (all reg'd to him or his father....big family of shooters and hunters) so they were on pretty high alert. With the presence of firearms in his room, they wanted to search the rest of the house. I simply said, I have never been accused or convicted of a crime, I do not have a firearm in the house, and while I am happy to allow you to search the room of the gentleman you just arrested, you have no reason to search anywhere outside of the room he rents from me. Gonna need some paperwork for that one. They said...."fair enough". Emptied his room of firearms and went on their way....(he got 'em all back BTW....)

When you lie to them about the firearms you have, especially when your ego gets too big and you get caught in your lie when the LEO's check the house out, yer screwed. If you look like you are trying to hide something.....alarms will go off.....if you are helpful and intelligent in your communications with the officers and they have no prior complaints, you should be fine.

[TakeTheShot]

Update

I called my friend every day since the incident.
Me: Are you still alive?
Buddy: If I answered the damn phone, whatcha think?
Me: Of course, you could be talking from the Spirit World. How's the weather?
Buddy: Hot!

Yep, still alive and no new holes in his head.

Neighbor #2 from across the street came back home today (Saturday). He didn't come home the other day, I guess he stayed in jail or stayed away. Someone at the PD said there's a website that can tell you when #2 was getting out of jail, but they didn't know what it was. Well, it's a little late now. It would have been good to know when #2 makes bail so he could prepare himself.

After the incident, my buddy called the department and requested a TRO and he's still waiting for the Judge to sign off on it. Of course, it's Labor Day weekend and the courts are closed until Tuesday. He should be okay. I offered to come by and bring a some firepower or legally loan him my shotgun for a couple of days. He said no. I told him that when seconds count, the police are minutes away! hahaha!

... aim the CAMERA of my phone and snap a pic of him pointing the gun at me. That would clear up any confusion on the neighbors part when the cops question him

He went out to Walmart today to look for some security cameras to set up outside the house facing the driveway and sidewalk.

Are neighbor #1 and 2 friends with each other?

Not that I know of. #2 came out of the house one time when my Buddy and Next Door had a previous incident. Next Door had driven the car across their driveway and smack my Buddy's car, then pulled back and parked their car. #2 had witnessed it and told my Buddy what happened and who did it. That was about $5000 worth of bumper and fender damage. If #2 and Next Door were friends, #2 wouldn't have offered any support.

Tell your buddy to get the restraining order at the very least. Get a shotgun or a pistol (if he doesn't have one already) for home defense until he has the time/money/resources to move.

I don't know where he is in California, but in some counties that will be more than enough for a CCW.

He's still waiting on that RO. I told him about a CCW, but he doesn't own a gun. A paintball gun, but nothing else.

I forwarded that Code regarding the TRO and the firearms. He mentioned it to the lady at the police department. She was a little dumbfounded that he knew anything. She mentioned that the police officers should have confiscated all the guns in the house.

WTF? Why would she say that? Albeit, she wasn't an officer but a police clerk. I'm all for supporting the safety of my Buddy, but I also support the idea of due process. Yeah, #2 MAY have posed a possible threat, but confiscating all the rifles and guns, that's a bit premature. If my Friend gets shot this weekend before the TRO then I'll retract my statement.

He doesn't even know what #2 was charged with. I told him to get the police report.

[anthonyca]

Anyone that's willing to point a gun at people for little reason shouldn't have a gun. Get an RO before you end up in a box.

A RO could help for a bully or a non violent stalker, but if this guy is crazy enough to kill someone for this, a RO isn't going to stop him.

I don't know what really happened, but from what I do know I would think about moving. This sucks.

[audihenry]

tell him to MOVE !!!!

This. Sounds like a nutty neighborhood.

[diginit]

Lots of people here seem to be worried about false accusations. I doubt many people would risk filing a false police report and going to jail by making false statements.
Look at it from the other side. If someone pointed a gun at you, Wouldn't you appreciate LE searching the branishers' house and taking your word that you were in danger? LE had the right to search here as the use of a gun is a felony. LE had PC because of resonable suspicion a crime was commited. I personally, don't give a FK about the civil rights of a violent criminal or some idiot that aimed a gun at me.
If this guy has half a brain, The time spent in jail will wake him up. If not, Your friend had better be VERY aware of what is going on around him. Especially at night. I feel that his refusal to arm himself may be a mistake. Cameras will only show the police who commited the crime. They won't save his life.