Question on semi-auto shotgun and NFA

[pat038536]

Question: If I was able to purchase a semi-auto shotgun that only came with a pistol grip and never had rifle stock, would I be able do this to it? I would of course have to have the Form1/4 stamp.

Is such a creature available?

[John Browning]

I don't think you can go that short in a semi-auto. It is too short for a gas system, and you have to use a butt stock to get an inertia system to run reliably. There is also the problem surrounding the recoil tube spring and associated assembly.

[tozan]

Not to be picky, but isn't that a pump in the photo?

Also I was under the impression Ca had a ban on short barreled shotguns or pistols that fire shotgun shells.

[Josh3239]

The shotgun you pictured is a pump action and an AOW. It is an AOW because it has the second pistol grip. I am not sure what you are asking.

[ke6guj]

Question: If I was able to purchase a semi-auto shotgun that only came with a pistol grip and never had rifle stock,

I am not aware of any production semi-auto "shotguns" sold with only a PG.

would I be able do this to it? I would of course have to have the Form1/4 stamp.

if you could find a new semi-auto PG-only "shotgun", yes, you could submit a Form 1 to make an AOW from it. Or, if you found someone making semi-auto AOWs like that, you could Form 4 one

Is such a creature available?

only one I am aware of is a custom Saiga12 AOW from Cadiz. AFAIK, they take a standard Saiga12 and demil it. They make a new PG-only receiver and build it up as an AOW with the parts off the old Saiga12. Base price is around $2k for that beast.




If you could find a Saiga12 flat (perhaps ak-builder could make one), then you could roll your own, but you'd have to destroy an existing Saiga12 to make it.

[ke6guj]

I don't think you can go that short in a semi-auto. It is too short for a gas system, and you have to use a butt stock to get an inertia system to run reliably. There is also the problem surrounding the recoil tube spring and associated assembly.

Cadiz has an AOW Saiga12 with around an 8" barrel. I dont know if they can go any shorter.

Not to be picky, but isn't that a pump in the photo?

I think the OP is aware of that. He is asking if it would be possible to make/get something like that in semi-auto.

Also I was under the impression Ca had a ban on short barreled shotguns or pistols that fire shotgun shells.

they do, but if you have a registered AOW, it is exempt from CA's SBS ban.

The shotgun you pictured is a pump action and an AOW. It is an AOW because it has the second pistol grip. I am not sure what you are asking.

Actually, it is an AOW because it is a smooth-bore pistol. The VFG just makes it "extra" AOW. Even without the VFG, it would still be an AOW.

[tozan]

Very cool so Cal is not all bad to bad I got rid of my short pump.... But I have been thinking of chopping a over/under 12ga to a 4 inch barrel with a pistol grip...

[CSACANNONEER]

Jack forgot to mention that C&R SBS are also possible in CA.

[ke6guj]

But I have been thinking of chopping a over/under 12ga to a 4 inch barrel with a pistol grip...

Well that would be making an SBS, and that is not legal in CA, unless you could find someone making PG-only O/U "shotguns". But currently, AFAIK, all of the common O/U's and SxS's are made overseas and imported into the states. Because they are imported, they have to come in under "sporting purposes", and that basically requires that they be imported with a shoulder stock. Because of that, it is a shotgun and cutting it down makes it an SBS, not an AOW. Modern SBSs are not legal in CA without a CADOJ Dangerous Weapons permit, but an AOW does not need the DW permit.

[xibunkrlilkidsx]

if it came from the factory in the configuration of not having a stock than yes. but you cant have any of the other "evil features" +some other things(barrel length min?) if i remember for pumps.

look at mossberg persuader(i tihnk) they are legal here and are about as short as you can find. but cant think of anything in a semi auto package..

[tozan]

I am not sure what all your abriviations mean.... I know in Fl we could apply for the stamp then chop them down the way we wanted we had one the same as the pump above that was actually shorter. My boss Reed Knight (Knights Armament) carried it in his car.

Could you be more clear as to what I would need to do?

Well that would be making an SBS, and that is not legal in CA, unless you could find someone making PG-only O/U "shotguns". But currently, AFAIK, all of the common O/U's and SxS's are made overseas and imported into the states. Because they are imported, they have to come in under "sporting purposes", and that basically requires that they be imported with a shoulder stock. Because of that, it is a shotgun and cutting it down makes it an SBS, not an AOW. Modern SBSs are not legal in CA without a CADOJ Dangerous Weapons permit, but an AOW does not need the DW permit.

[ke6guj]

I am not sure what all your abriviations mean....

SBS= Short barreled shotgun
CA= California
PG-only= pistol-grip only (never ever had a shoulder stock)
O/U= Over/Under
AFAIK= As Far As I Know
SxS= Side by Side
AOW= Any Other Weapon
CADOJ= CA (California) Department Of Justice
DW= Dangerous Weapon.

I know in Fl we could apply for the stamp then chop them down the way we wanted we had one the same as the pump above that was actually shorter. My boss Reed Knight (Knights Armament) carried it in his car.

With just about any O/U or SxS shotgun, if you chopped it down, you would be making an SBS, since it would be a firearm made from a shotgun. YOu can't do that in CA since CA requires you to first have a CADOJ DW permit before you can get the tax stamp from the feds.

Could you be more clear as to what I would need to do?

As I said earlier, you would need to find a manufacturer making PG-only shotgun-shell firing firearms that never had a shoulder stock. If you found one of those, then you could apply for an AOW tax stamp to make a smooth-bore pistol out of it.

For more info, read the link in my sig.

[Cyc Wid It]

My boss Reed Knight (Knights Armament) carried it in his car.

Please tell your (former?) boss to stop being an *** toward CA gun owners, reasonable pricing is a plus.