American Vintage Inc. BEWARE!!!

[Ed.]

I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

[Ed_Hazard]

Sorry to hear about your troubles but in all fairness their were plenty of red flags going off with this guy. Might I suggest you try out some of the fine vendors listed in the banner adds next time.

By the way great SN.

Ed

[oef24]

I just want to warn all Calgunners of Felex, American Vintage Inc. and his unsavory business practices. I was in the market for a POF P308, found his site, and gave him a shot (no pun intended). We agreed on an out the door price and he told me that a credit card purchase would carry a 3.6% sur charge, but that a bank transfer was free and I could do it from the comfort of my own house. I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind. While a new price after being quoted a price is not in and of itself a deal breaker, though poor business practice, what is of concern is that just the day before Felex regaled me with his exploits of attention to detail and how he is anal and never makes mistakes blah blah blah. Next he tells me that he does not have the weapon that we discussed in stock but that he does have another weapon with a different finish and barrel length in and assures me that I'll be very happy with this weapon. I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory. All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon. He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks. Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you. If this post is in the wrong section I apologize and please move it as necessary.

There is obviously something missing here. American Vintage, better known as AV Guns in Sarasota, FL is the largest POF dealer on the planet. His GunBroker auction feedback is 100% going back for many years.
I have purchased from him many times and have nothing but great things to say about the man. That is why I am saying that there is something missing. Why would you back out of a purchase for a $20 bank transfer fee? Something doesn't add up.
Like I said before, I have purchased from hm many times and have nothing but good things to say about him and his company.

O

[Zomgie]

I agree that something doesn't add up. The not accepting CCs at all is definitely strange for an online broker, as is the not having a gun in stock that was auctioned.

If everything happened the way OP said it happened (no offense), then I would've backed out too.

[ke6guj]

Huh!?!?!?!?! I was not aware that the seller assumed any risk while selling an item via credit card. There is no way that the weapon will ship out in the next few days, plenty of time for the funds to clear, and if they don't clear he would just not ship the weapon, right?

not commenting on the rest of it, but this part about the seller not having any risk, not true. Many vendors have had chargebacks for all kinds of reasons, after the merchadise has left the building.

[-hanko]

I called him back the next day as a courtesy to confirm our agreed on price and now the price has gone up. He tells me there is in fact a $20 fee for an account transfer that somehow slipped his mind.

I tell him that on his site he is auctioning the weapon that I want and ask why if he is such a detail oriented individual why is there one list of inventory on his site and another one when I speak with him. He has some elaborate story about how his dog is ill and how he knows that that particular weapon should be in within the next few weeks and so he can in good faith post that weapon as part of his inventory.

All this aside I decide to move forward with a purchase and decide to bite the bullet (again no pun intended) and make the purchase on a credit card and try to minimize the risk as I have grown cautious from the past dealings with this seller but still want the weapon.

He then tells me that he insist that I make the purchase via bank transfer and that he will not take a credit card from me due to the risks.

I just want to warn all of you as I would appreciate the heads up from any of you.

I'm amazed that you need us to advise you of a 'heads up' given what you just posted.

Yet you apparently disregard the bs since you can't live without the gun.

I'd suggest finding another vendor, maybe cdnn. Order the rifle from them, send it to a middleman ffl out of state if it needs mods before entering CA, and have the middleman ship to your ffl.

-hanko

[bsg]

unless you insist... this one just wasn't meant to be. thanks for the info and i'd suggest you just move on to the next great deal....

[wilit]

There is obviously something missing here. American Vintage, better known as AV Guns in Sarasota, FL is the largest POF dealer on the planet. His GunBroker auction feedback is 100% going back for many years.
I have purchased from him many times and have nothing but great things to say about the man. That is why I am saying that there is something missing. Why would you back out of a purchase for a $20 bank transfer fee? Something doesn't add up.
Like I said before, I have purchased from hm many times and have nothing but good things to say about him and his company.

O

Did you even read the entire post? The original poster did not back out because of the $20 fee. He backed out because of the shady things the American Vintage guy was doing/saying. Agreeing on a price, then adding to the cost the next day. Saying 1 day he'll take a credit card and the next saying he won't take a credit card. Agreeing to sell a specific model of rifle then the next day say he doesn't have it. Very shady.

[oef24]

Did you even read the entire post? The original poster did not back out because of the $20 fee. He backed out because of the shady things the American Vintage guy was doing/saying. Agreeing on a price, then adding to the cost the next day. Saying 1 day he'll take a credit card and the next saying he won't take a credit card. Agreeing to sell a specific model of rifle then the next day say he doesn't have it. Very shady.

I did read the entire post by the OP and from my experience, there is something missing. I have never had the problems the OP is describing. The rifle he wanted as I understand was in stock. I just bought a rifle from AV Guns last week and can vouch that his dog (which can be found on almost all his Gun Broker auctions) is in fact very sick. All I am saying is that there is definitely something that all of us are missing.
If I was a seller and negotiations were not going well, I too would not take a CC from somebody. Especially when the negotiation started with a bank wire. $20 bank wire fee is not a deal breaker by no means. If a seller is not comfortable doing business with someone, it is his or her right to not sell to you and it is your right to go elsewhere.
I am sure that if we all knew the 3 sides to the story, it would be different. Right now, as I see it, it is one sided by the OP. We need the other side and then the truth.

O

[Ed.]

I did read the entire post by the OP and from my experience, there is something missing. I have never had the problems the OP is describing. The rifle he wanted as I understand was in stock. I just bought a rifle from AV Guns last week and can vouch that his dog (which can be found on almost all his Gun Broker auctions) is in fact very sick. All I am saying is that there is definitely something that all of us are missing.
If I was a seller and negotiations were not going well, I too would not take a CC from somebody. Especially when the negotiation started with a bank wire. $20 bank wire fee is not a deal breaker by no means. If a seller is not comfortable doing business with someone, it is his or her right to not sell to you and it is your right to go elsewhere.
I am sure that if we all knew the 3 sides to the story, it would be different. Right now, as I see it, it is one sided by the OP. We need the other side and then the truth.

O

You know what, you are absolutely right, something is missing and it is the emails Felex and I sent back and forth. Read them and tell me what you think. Bear in mind that Felex does not have a very good grasp of the english language and is at times very very hard to follow. The only items I edited out are both of our email addresses. Enjoy.

From:
Subject: RE: POF
Date: August 12, 2010 11:06:59 AM PDT
To: Ed

PS. 20" BLK just arrived ..
If U can take a moment to call some one to deal with then I realy dont need
to deal with you as well..As I don't need the aggravation...My reputation in
Gun Commutate and on GB speaks for itself..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:46 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

I'm going to pass. I am an OIF and OEF veteran and attention to detail
is very very important to me. The forgetting of the fee while
upsetting, can be overlooked. Taken along with the inconsistencies
between our email correspondence and your items listed on the site is
cause for doubt and concern. Especially considering the dollar amount,
the fact that a firearm is included and the great distance between
both you and I as far as handling any possible issues that may arise.
Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors.

Regards,
Ed Morris

On Aug 12, 2010, at 9:34 AM, American Vintage Inc. wrote:

Call me..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:30 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

No biggie on the change in price. Though typically bad practice.
Your site
says 20" black in stock but your email says not in stock.



On Aug 12, 2010, at 9:15 AM, "American Vintage Inc."
wrote:

Lets see... $2399 + CA $35 + Sh + $45 + $10 (take mag a part) + $20
for
the
wire transfer.. Yes I know that I did not say anything about the
fee for
the
wire.. Sorry I totally forgot about it.. That is what it cost me..
Your
total :$2509.
See my last em for in what is stock and availability..
Please call me if you need to speak with me..
Tnx and looking forward to hearing from you..
Madd1
1-941-524-9607..

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:05 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

So we are all good for a P308 20" in black all said and done $2,489
even? You have that in stock? I will transfer money as soon as I get
your response.

On Aug 12, 2010, at 4:39 AM, American Vintage Inc. wrote:

Thet we can do..

AMERICAN VINTAGE.
SARASOTA, FL

1-941-524-9607 CELL
1-941-351-2721 FAX

AVGUNS.COM
AVGUNSHOP.COM

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:47 AM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: Re: POF

I'll take this one #184495141



On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:30 PM, "American Vintage Inc." wrote:

Ed..
Glad U said blk ..
I was under impression as to NP3..(Silver)
Sorry no 16" Blk all gone..
Do have a 14.7" with perm hider. Total 16" and is the shortest you
can
have
with out CL3..
Hope this will work for you..
If not I will have 16" soon..
Felex.

AMERICAN VINTAGE.
SARASOTA, FL

1-941-524-9607 CELL
1-941-351-2721 FAX

AVGUNS.COM
AVGUNSHOP.COM

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:21 PM
To: American Vintage Inc.
Subject: POF

Just to make sure we are on the same page. I'm ordering a POF
P308 in
black
with a 16" barrel. If we are all good I'll transfer funds in the
morning.

Regards,
Ed

[oef24]

Ed,

The emails you posted shed some more light on the subject although it is hard to understand because the time and date stamps are all mixed up. It looks like the black 20" rifle you were looking for was not in stock and then it arrived the next day. Then the $20 wire fee and somewhere in there, the deal fell through. It looks like you got a little upset at the fee but it shouldn't have been a deal breaker for either party in my opinion. Why didn't you go ahead with the original deal and wire the money? His reputation on GunBroker is immaculate and is the largest dealer of the brand you were in the market for? I hope you get the rifle you were in the market for because I own one and it is the most accurate .308 semi-auto I have ever fired. FYI, if and when you get it, put some good glass on it.

O

[AndreTwin]

Ed.
I can see that you posted some emails & somehow think that you were screwed to the point that you had to make this entire post of unsavory business practices from AV Guns.
But if I was to read your original comment & word for word understand it. I don't see any problems other then you are one of those difficult customers that we retailers get to deal with from time to time.
First of all AV Guns were advertising a weapon that might not have been available to ship ASAP but they however had such weapon either on it's way to them or maybe as a consignment to some other broker, who knows bottom line that weapon was going to be available if not today then 2 weeks from today tops! There is nothing wrong with that kind of business practice 1000s of top dealers do it & some even are willing to drop ship because they might not have it in stock at time of posting an ad.
That however is not an issue here because you have agreed to buy a different weapon in which case I am more then sure you gave Felix more then enough reasons to reconsider taking Credit Card from you. I my self as a retail businessman practice the same theory (better safe then sorry) If I feel that the buyer might give me problems I rather have Bank transfer, MO or Cashiers Check. As for $20 wire transfer fee, well my friend that is a laughing matter. Why should a seller cover it? So the seller forgot to mention it (BIG DEAL) the seller never said anything about covering it either!!!
Look. I don't know about you & to be honest I don't give much F*ck. But to post some complete incriminating post to discredit someone & use your case as example is a complete JOKE! I am willing to bet that If Felix was to shine some light on that issue & tell his side of the story & provide his emails, everyone reading your post would see that there are cases out there where a costumer is just an idiot & no matter what you do he/she will always see you as a villain (I am speaking from my personal experience).
Just to squash the whole thing here is my look at Felix of AVGuns.
His English is excellent & trust me I communicate with people all over USA!
He is by far the most honest individual I've ever done business with as a matter of fact when I bought my first POF & LWRC from Felix NO ONE had them in stock & to add more to the matter NO ONE WANTED to even deal with CA residents! (Even Felix wasn't thrilled to work with CA back in those days & I cant blame him) However I was persistent enough & Felix was honorable to make that deal happen & ever since that moment I had purchased many weapons from Felix for personal use & my business as well. I even refereed many friends who bought from AV Guns & they were thrilled to finally work with someone who could take care of them & deal with them on individual bases who was knowledgeable unlike an average Gun Dealer out there. While dealing with AV Guns you get the entire experience not just a great deal but you get a great advice & a friend you can always turn to in case of problems with weapons or just to see what's NEW!
From Experience I got a POF for my Father as a present & the weapon had problem ejecting empty cases do to bore being to tight that was a POF factory defect. I called POF & was told that it will take 6-10 weeks before they can have my weapon fixed & returned back to me (Do to an overload OBAMA just became a President, Remember?) Anyhow I contacted Felix & only mentioned the issue & the guy jumped right on top of it he made a phone call to POF then told me to send the weapon in with ATT TO: forgot the name of the person but anyhow I did that & my weapon was back in phenomenal working order in less then a week that's considering 4 days while in transit.
So as for my self Felix & AVguns are the best!
Where as people like you Ed being in my situation would blame everything on Felix for sending you a broken weapon or what ever the the case you would make one up. You would still blame AV Guns just because you are that kind of Customer/Individual!!!

So Grow Up not in every business the customer is always right. I am more then sure that you were a prick in the first place & only hope Felix can take time & shine some light on that issue. If I am wrong about you I will apologize but somehow I highly doubt it!

[Ed.]

Wow, are you feeling ok?

While I am amazed at your insight and willingness to jump straight to insults I will still take what you are saying into consideration. By the way his name is Felex with an E. I am not sure how you got that I am some, how did you so eloquently put it, oh right a prick from reading my post or the emails that Felex and I exchanged. I was not pleased with my experience and just wanted to make others aware of it. Is that so wrong? If it is the general opinion that I should keep my experiences to myself I will delete the post and not comment on any bad experiences I may have in the future. I am not here to cast insults and take cheap shots at people and I am not sure why you have chosen to resort to that kind of childish behavior and would certainly think twice about doing business with someone that does. I did not come on here and call anyone a prick, if something is going on in your life and coming on here and calling someone names and deliberately missing the point or avoiding the facts posted in black and white in all their glory somehow helps with your stress then by all means call me whatever you want. I am not offended by your behavior and if it helps you deal with your angst then I am happy to help because in my opinion that is what members of a community should do for each other.

Shame on you "Andre". I just saw your join date and your post count. I smell something rather unsavory here.

[AndreTwin]

While I am amazed at your insight and willingness to jump straight to insults I will still take what you are saying into consideration. By the way his name is Felex with an E. I am not sure how you got that I am some, how did you so eloquently put it, oh right a prick from reading my post or the emails that Felex and I exchanged. I was not pleased with my experience and just wanted to make others aware of it. Is that so wrong? If it is the general opinion that I should keep my experiences to myself I will delete the post and not comment on any bad experiences I may have in the future. I am not here to cast insults and take cheap shots at people and I am not sure why you have chosen to resort to that kind of childish behavior and would certainly think twice about doing business with someone that does. I did not come on here and call anyone a prick, if something is going on in your life and coming on here and calling someone names and deliberately missing the point or avoiding the facts posted in black and white in all their glory somehow helps with your stress then by all means call me whatever you want. I am not offended by your behavior and if it helps you deal with your angst then I am happy to help because in my opinion that is what members of a community should do for each other.

Shame on you "Andre". I just saw your join date and your post count. I smell something rather unsavory here.

WOW. Aren't we quick to respond & even mentioning my join date.
OK Mr. Drama Queen!
I never posted here in my life, have visited & my buddy is the one who forwarded this post to me since he knows I buy all my guns from AV Guns he though it would be fair for someone who actually deals with AV Guns to clear things up. That said, have you my fragile minded & easily offended friend ever purchased anything from AV Guns. (And be honest because I am at the point where I am about to contact Felix my self. to get to the bottom of this & expose you)
Who cares Felix or Felex why wont you ask him who AndreTwin from Cali is & he has my entire permission to disclose all the business that I have done with him in the past & still doing today. Also how many customers that I've sent to him who are happy & great full to me that I guided them to someone like Felix & AV Guns.
As I said before you are one of those people who are difficult individual to deal with & so far you haven't given me any reasons to think otherwise. You only got offhanded just like I though you would. I never called you a PRICK I only used it as a scenario. I even offered my appologies if I was wrong about anything I posted. But given your case & scenario of dealing with AV Guns you simply don't have enough to post "BEWARE OF AMERICAN VINTAGE" you are an overreacting drama queen!
I bet you never even bought a weapon from AV Guns you only wasted time with your Drama!

[-hanko]

Speaking of Drama...

WOW. Aren't we quick to respond & even mentioning my join date.
OK Mr. Drama Queen!
I never posted here in my life, have visited & my buddy is the one who forwarded this post to me since he knows I buy all my guns from AV Guns he though it would be fair for someone who actually deals with AV Guns to clear things up. That said, have you my fragile minded & easily offended friend ever purchased anything from AV Guns. (And be honest because I am at the point where I am about to contact Felix my self. to get to the bottom of this & expose you)
Who cares Felix or Felex why wont you ask him who AndreTwin from Cali is & he has my entire permission to disclose all the business that I have done with him in the past & still doing today. Also how many customers that I've sent to him who are happy & great full to me that I guided them to someone like Felix & AV Guns.
As I said before you are one of those people who are difficult individual to deal with & so far you haven't given me any reasons to think otherwise. You only got offhanded just like I though you would. I never called you a PRICK I only used it as a scenario. I even offered my appologies if I was wrong about anything I posted. But given your case & scenario of dealing with AV Guns you simply don't have enough to post "BEWARE OF AMERICAN VINTAGE" you are an overreacting drama queen!
I bet you never even bought a weapon from AV Guns you only wasted time with your Drama!

Rant score 1.0
No critical thinking skills.
Skips rational arguments on the merits of his comments and proceeds directly to vulgar personal attacks.
Most likely a libtard troll because of the personal attack angle.
Libtard fear about his personal popularity is clearly evident in this post.
Tactics used include objectification, marginalization, and obfuscation.
Clearly missing is any substantive discussion of conservative principals versus Liberal feel good whining.
Overall a very poor showing for a rant and an excellent example of intellectual vacuity.

Interesting post from someone who has no dog in this fight. There's just got to be more than a buyer/seller relationship here...care to share the details?

I've bought a lot of weapons via online sales including a few in the 5-figure range...I've never been asked for a wire transfer. Usually I send usps mo's or a certified check from my bank for biggies. Idiot's who have a surcharge for credit card payments may perhaps lose their ability to accept cc's. Which credit cards does Felex accept??

I'll have your post on arfcom, hkpro, thr, and just about any other board I can think of just a little later.

-hanko