Complicated Father/Son Transfer

[Skyler76]

I am aware that a parent / child transfer doesn't require an FFL to get involved, however.. I'm from Scotland. I've been here close to 15 years. My father has quite a collection of rifles and shotguns that he has generously offered one or two to me. He will be coming over later this year and was planning on bringing them to me at that time. My question is.. can he bring them over on a hunting license and transfer them to me that way or do we absolutely have to do the ATF import stuff? I like to be on the right side of the law so if there is an element of doubt i'd rather just do the standard import process. Most all the guns are american - nothing exotic. Well there is an Steyr SSG (love my Dad!) but nothing you can't get here i meant.

So what is the least complex way to do it?

[Quiet]

The no FFL dealer required for intra-familial transfer, only works if both parties are CA residents.

There is no intra-familial transfer exemption to Federal laws.

Firearms being imported into the USA, must be approved for importation by the BATFE.

[J-cat]

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5330-3a.pdf

[mjsweims]

I was going to get a rifle from my incle in Canada. The first difficulty was finding a FFL locally who would receive it and fill in the form for ATF. After I found one it took so long to get it sent in and approved (about 2-1/2 months) that the FFL received it after my uncle died. Since ownership passed to my aunt at that point we would have had to go through everything again. I just told her to sell it locally.
Other things I learned. Most FFL's will think they cannot do an import, really they can if it is only "occasional".
It may be difficult to find a Scottish shipping company to handle it. There are special requirements both there and in the US to go through for the shipper.
The firearm will be sent to a US Customs station where the FFL will have to pick it up in person or by an employee. It does not get shipped directly to the FFL.
Good luck!

[Skyler76]

Oh.. wow. I thought he'd be able to bring it over himself and present the forms at customs!?

[Quiet]

Oh.. wow. I thought he'd be able to bring it over himself and present the forms at customs!?

You need to get BATFE approval prior to importing it.
Otherwise, US Customs will confiscate the firearms.

[Skyler76]

Yeah but I thought he'd be able to physically transport it himself w/o the FFL having to pick it up in person? By "forms" I meant the approval forms that the FFL fills out and sends to the ATF for approval.

Here's my understanding -
FFL Fills out some form, sends to ATF, ATF Approve and Send back to FFL, FFL then sends to my father who carries both documents and firearms to customs guy in the US airport. At that point would he then give to the FFL and do a reg transfer?

Is that right or am I missing something?

[Skyler76]

I was going to get a rifle from my incle in Canada. The first difficulty was finding a FFL locally who would receive it and fill in the form for ATF. After I found one it took so long to get it sent in and approved (about 2-1/2 months) that the FFL received it after my uncle died. Since ownership passed to my aunt at that point we would have had to go through everything again. I just told her to sell it locally.
Other things I learned. Most FFL's will think they cannot do an import, really they can if it is only "occasional".
It may be difficult to find a Scottish shipping company to handle it. There are special requirements both there and in the US to go through for the shipper.
The firearm will be sent to a US Customs station where the FFL will have to pick it up in person or by an employee. It does not get shipped directly to the FFL.
Good luck!

UPS and FedEx are everywhere but my father is coming over to visit, can't he bring it with him?

[Quiet]

UPS and FedEx are everywhere but my father is coming over to visit, can't he bring it with him?

Your father could bring them, then US Customs will confiscate them and release them to the FFL dealer.

BATFE approval is required prior to the importation of the firearms. Otherwise, US Customs will confiscate the firearms.
If approved, US Customs will only release the firearms to the FFL dealer listed on the approval paperwork.

60 days prior to the date of importation, a Form 6 Part 1 (ATF F 5330.3A), in triplicate, needs to be submitted to the BATFE Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch.

If you have any questions, call the BATFE Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch (1-304-616-4550).

[CHS]

Your father could bring them, then US Customs will confiscate them and release them to the FFL dealer.

BATFE approval is required prior to the importation of the firearms. Otherwise, US Customs will confiscate the firearms.
If approved, US Customs will only release the firearms to the FFL dealer listed on the approval paperwork.

60 days prior to the date of importation, a Form 6 Part 1 (ATF F 5330.3B), in triplicate, needs to be submitted to the BATFE Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch.

If you have any questions, call the BATFE Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch (1-304-616-4550).

Quiet, he's talking about the OTHER way.

He's in Scotland, and his father is here in the US.

His father can bring the guns to Scotland on a hunting license, but then can or can't he leave them in Scotland while following Scottish import laws.

Who knows?

OP: This REALLY is a question more for your country's gun forum

There's probably a BATFE export form involved for this side of the equation.

[Quiet]

Quiet, he's talking about the OTHER way.

He's in Scotland, and his father is here in the US.

His father can bring the guns to Scotland on a hunting license, but then can or can't he leave them in Scotland while following Scottish import laws.

Who knows?

OP: This REALLY is a question more for your country's gun forum

There's probably a BATFE export form involved for this side of the equation.

I concluded from the OP's first post that he says he's from Scotland, that he has been here (USA) for last 15 years, his dad is coming to visit and he wants to know if they have "to do the ATF import stuff".

His dad can bring them temporarily into the USA on an approved Form 6 NIA (ATF F 5330.3D).
But, to bring them in permanentely, they would need an approved Form 6 Part 1 (ATF F 5330.3A).

The OP should contact the BATFE Firearms & Explosives Imports Branch for clarification.

[rbetts]

As the FFL in the transaction, I think I'd want to make sure that the OP is in compliance with the state also. Since the guns are being transferred from father to son, and father is not a CA resident, but son is, A DROS would need to be completed. I'd want ID from the father, a letter stating that they are being given to the son and then the standard 10 day wait would apply.

This technically is a 2 part transaction. get guns into US and then legally into CA.

Anyone disagree or have more info knowledge on this?

[Skyler76]

As the FFL in the transaction, I think I'd want to make sure that the OP is in compliance with the state also. Since the guns are being transferred from father to son, and father is not a CA resident, but son is, A DROS would need to be completed. I'd want ID from the father, a letter stating that they are being given to the son and then the standard 10 day wait would apply.

This technically is a 2 part transaction. get guns into US and then legally into CA.

Anyone disagree or have more info knowledge on this?

I called the DoJ again and you are correct.

I really don't get the DoJ and why I get a different answer every time I talk to them. He said that if my father was physically handing me the firearms then it wouldn't require a DROS. I then told him my father was not a resident of not only the state or even the US and he said as long as it was face to face it didn't matter no DROS (i have no idea if that is the case just telling you what he said)! Then I reminded him I was importing.. which I told him at the start. As long as it's father/son, face to face, no DROS! "Are you going through an FFL?" - Sorry at this point I am frustrated, I would have expected a DoJ firearms guy to know I need an FFL to get the guns into the US. "Oh you'll need to do a DROS then".

Genius!

[CHS]

I called the DoJ again and you are correct.

I really don't get the DoJ and why I get a different answer every time I talk to them. He said that if my father was physically handing me the firearms then it wouldn't require a DROS. I then told him my father was not a resident of not only the state or even the US and he said as long as it was face to face it didn't matter no DROS (i have no idea if that is the case just telling you what he said)! Then I reminded him I was importing.. which I told him at the start. As long as it's father/son, face to face, no DROS! "Are you going through an FFL?" - Sorry at this point I am frustrated, I would have expected a DoJ firearms guy to know I need an FFL to get the guns into the US. "Oh you'll need to do a DROS then".

California law does not require a father to son face to face transfer go through an FFL. That's why the DoJ keeps repeating that nonsense.

HOWEVER, Federal law requires that ANY interstate transfer must be done through an FFL. So the DoJ is wrong.

[Quiet]

California law does not require a father to son face to face transfer go through an FFL. That's why the DoJ keeps repeating that nonsense.

HOWEVER, Federal law requires that ANY interstate transfer must be done through an FFL. So the DoJ is wrong.

CA DOJ BOF only cares about CA state law, they don't care about Federal laws.
The CA DOJ BOGC is the same way.