Shotgun in Vehicle: Shells in Side Saddle = Loaded?

[Doheny]

The title pretty much says it; if you have a shotgun in your vehicle with shells in an attached side saddle, is the gun considered loaded? (no shells actually in the gun/tube/chamber.)

Thanks.

[patriot_man]

Penal Code 12031:
(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

[FreedomIsNotFree]

The title pretty much says it; if you have a shotgun in your vehicle with shells in an attached side saddle, is the gun considered loaded? (no shells actually in the gun/tube/chamber.)

Thanks.

Nope, completely legal. See People v. Clark.

[FreedomIsNotFree]

Penal Code 12031:
(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

That was the law as passed by the legislature. The courts clarified what "loaded" means in this context. Read People v. Clark linked above.

[BigDogatPlay]

Shells in sidesaddle = not loaded, as per above.

[IGOTDIRT4U]

Shells in sidesaddle = not loaded, as per above.

But it still will get you a lot of unwanted attention if stopped. What the law says and the patrol officer actually knows will be the issue.

[PutTogether]

But it still will get you a lot of unwanted attention if stopped. What the law says and the patrol officer actually knows will be the issue.

If you somehow end up with a cop searching your car, I would imagine being polite and saying that you positive that "loaded" is defined by People v Clark as ammunition being in a position where it is capable of being fired.... would probably help.

[IGOTDIRT4U]

If you somehow end up with a cop searching your car, I would imagine being polite and saying that you positive that "loaded" is defined by People v Clark as ammunition being in a position where it is capable of being fired.... would probably help.

Eh, you are counting on the cop being in a good mood AND knowing case law. I have encountered similar situations and the cop's first response was, "Don't know about that, but you can tell that to a Judge".

[BigDogatPlay]

Eh, you are counting on the cop being in a good mood AND knowing case law. I have encountered similar situations and the cop's first response was, "Don't know about that, but you can tell that to a Judge".

In which case you might get to have a cause of action against the officer and his agency for negligently or purposefully violating your civil rights because it won't ever get to a judge. People v. Clark is very well known, it pretty much cleared the cobwebs out of loaded vs. unloaded, and there have been any number of training bulletins about it for the cops in the field.

Anyone who hooks you up for loaded firearm when the shells are in a sidesaddle, or in a mag not affixed to the gun, is going to get his / her rear end kicked by his sergeant and the ADA who catches the case.... because they are either not very bright or they simply don't know their job.

[Interloper]

In which case you might get to have a cause of action against the officer and his agency for negligently or purposefully violating your civil rights because it won't ever get to a judge. People v. Clark is very well known, it pretty much cleared the cobwebs out of loaded vs. unloaded, and there have been any number of training bulletins about it for the cops in the field.

Anyone who hooks you up for loaded firearm when the shells are in a sidesaddle, or in a mag not affixed to the gun, is going to get his / her rear end kicked by his sergeant and the ADA who catches the case.... because they are either not very bright or they simply don't know their job.

Optimistic and idealistic bad advice. You may get you gun confiscated, be forced out on the pavement, beaten, bullied, searched, tazed or sprayed. Since when does the law protect you from "The Law"?

[pullnshoot25]

In which case you might get to have a cause of action against the officer and his agency for negligently or purposefully violating your civil rights because it won't ever get to a judge. People v. Clark is very well known, it pretty much cleared the cobwebs out of loaded vs. unloaded, and there have been any number of training bulletins about it for the cops in the field.

Anyone who hooks you up for loaded firearm when the shells are in a sidesaddle, or in a mag not affixed to the gun, is going to get his / her rear end kicked by his sergeant and the ADA who catches the case.... because they are either not very bright or they simply don't know their job.

In all seriousness, that is HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC.

Be smart and exercise your rights. Never count on a police officer knowing the law nor being held accountable for his illegal actions.

[Librarian]

However, People v Clark is a 1996 case. There is no excuse for a 14 year old case to be omitted from an officer's training.

Certainly a poorly trained officer may make a mistake, and that can be a serious inconvenience, but with competent representation, you'll win on the law.

[PutTogether]

In all seriousness, that is HIGHLY OPTIMISTIC.

Be smart and exercise your rights. Never count on a police officer knowing the law nor being held accountable for his illegal actions.

Yeah, it is highly optimistic, but where does one draw the line? I don't mean to minimize, as a hassle with cop is never going to be fun, and I don't mean to be a keyboard commando, but.....

...If I have somehow found myself in a situation where a cop is searching my trunk AND:

• For some reason I am letting this happen
• I have a shotgun in my trunk
• that shotgun is UNLOADED
• That shotgun has a side saddle with shells in it
• I get arrested for it

At some point I have to say so what? Fcuk it, I did what I could, I tried to explain it to him, I tried to get him to radio his sergeant, I stayed calm, I didn't get angry, go ahead, arrest me.

I won't say a word, I'll get an attorney, I'll deal with however many hours I sit in jail, and when everyone laughs and lets me out, I'll figure out what, if anything to do then.

A WHOLE lot of stuff needs to go wrong to get that point. I just don't see it happening. If it does....well, that's why they came up with the term "S happens" right?

Sure, my car got impounded and I spent (worst case, if I got cuffed friday night) a weekend in jail, all over not breaking a law and some over zealous super cop. Oh well. It's like getting told you have lung cancer if you never smoked. The odds are phenomenally against it, you did everything right, but if it happens, what else can you do but say fcuk it and deal with it?

[Doheny]

Well, I was mostly interested in going to/from the range, a SD class, etc. Inasmuch as it may be legal, I think the safe thing would be to transport with nothing attached.

[Omil]

Well, I was mostly interested in going to/from the range, a SD class, etc. Inasmuch as it may be legal, I think the safe thing would be to transport with nothing attached.

>+1!