Question on selling an AR PISTOL/DROS

[Henry Hill]

I recently read this post on arfcom:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=122&t=465457

In the ATF letter it says an unlicensed person can make a firearm for his personal use but not for sale or distribution. Does this mean one cannot sell AR pistol made from a stripped lower that was DROS'ed as an 'other' item - as a pistol?

[Josh3239]

You cannot make a firearm for the business of selling. You can sell 80%'s, if you intend to make a business out of it you are required to get yourself an FFL for manufacturing. No different then if you bought a whole bunch of M1 Garands from CMP and started selling 'em, the ATF would want you to get a FFL liscense for dealing.

[Henry Hill]

You cannot make a firearm for the business of selling. You can sell 80%'s, if you intend to make a business out of it you are required to get yourself an FFL for manufacturing. No different then if you bought a whole bunch of M1 Garands from CMP and started selling 'em, the ATF would want you to get a FFL liscense for dealing.

The question was more geared toward - If I use one of my lowers that was DROS'ed as an 'other', not a pistol or a rifle, to build as a pistol, can I sell it to someone, and have it DROS'ed to them as a pistol?

[Quiet]

Federally, you can legally make a "other" firearm into either a "handgun" or a "rifle" or a "shotgun".

However, CA adds additional restrictions.

In CA...
A 4473 and a DROS is done when a firearm is transfered through a FFL dealer.

(Federal) 4473 = "handgun", "long gun" or "other"
(CA) DROS = "handgun" or "long gun"

The CA DROS system does not allow "other", so recievers/frames are DROS'd as "long guns". They can not be DROS'd as "handguns", because they would need to be on the approved list.

So, a stripped AR lower reciever transfered through a CA FFL dealer will be 4473'd as an "other" but DROS'd as a "long gun".
Since, the reciever has been transfered/noted as a "long gun", making it into a "handgun" will cause it to be a SBR.

It is strongly recommended that you do not make a receiver into a handgun, unless it was DROS'd as a "handgun". Otherwise, CA DOJ could bust you for an unregistered SBR.

[corrupt]

As far as I understand it, in Cali in order to get a legal pistol DROS'd lower you would have to:
build it yourself (from an 80% for example).
buy it PPT from a cop.
Have an out of state dealer assemble it in to a single shot pistol.

I'm guessing that you may get a knock on your door if you PPT or otherwise transfer a firearm DROS'd as a pistol to someone after it was previously DROS'd as a rifle.

But then again I'm not a lawyer and this is just info I think I know after reading on and off for several years.

[Henry Hill]

As far as I understand it, in Cali in order to get a legal pistol DROS'd lower you would have to:
build it yourself (from an 80% for example).
buy it PPT from a cop.
Have an out of state dealer assemble it in to a single shot pistol.

I'm guessing that you may get a knock on your door if you PPT or otherwise transfer a firearm DROS'd as a pistol to someone after it was previously DROS'd as a rifle.

But then again I'm not a lawyer and this is just info I think I know after reading on and off for several years.

Well that definitely SUCKS.... Why does it need to be made into a single shot, if I may ask? How would one change it back into a semi

[bobfried]

Well that definitely SUCKS.... Why does it need to be made into a single shot, if I may ask? How would one change it back into a semi

By changing the magazine into a 10 rounder, that's it, pop out the single shot sled, pop in a 10 rounder.

Note of caution, if you are not an LEO or building something from 80%, no FFL in CA will DROS a bare lower as a pistol. So if you have a bare lower in your possession, one that has not been built, and you bought it from an FFL, it is a RIFLE with 99.999999999% certainty. The only exception is if the YOU clearly requested and the FFL told you that it was DROS as a pistol. At which point the FFL would as you for your LEO credentials, which if you don't have would make the transaction a no go.

Ways to get a pistol in CA:
- Single shot COMPLETE from a manufacturer (07 FFL)
- PPT from an LEO
- 80% built at home (not completely milled receiver, we're not talking one that has not been built up but one that hasn't even been built to take parts at all.)

[1911su16b870]

By changing the magazine into a 10 rounder, that's it, pop out the single shot sled, pop in a 10 rounder.

Note of caution, if you are not an LEO or building something from 80%, no FFL in CA will DROS a bare lower as a pistol. So if you have a bare lower in your possession, one that has not been built, and you bought it from an FFL, it is a RIFLE with 99.999999999% certainty. The only exception is if the YOU clearly requested and the FFL told you that it was DROS as a pistol. At which point the FFL would as you for your LEO credentials, which if you don't have would make the transaction a no go.

Ways to get a pistol in CA:
- Single shot COMPLETE from a manufacturer (07 FFL)
- PPT from an LEO
- 80% built at home (not completely milled receiver, we're not talking one that has not been built up but one that hasn't even been built to take parts at all.)

Hey bobfried, if you legally aquired an AR DROS pistol and had preban mags, it should be legal to run those in that AR pistol?

[bobfried]

Hey bobfried, if you legally aquired an AR DROS pistol and had preban mags, it should be legal to run those in that AR pistol?

If all those pre-ban mags are 10 rounds or less.

Pistols are considered AW base don a few conditions, examples:
- Threaded muzzle
- MAGAZINE OUTSIDE THE PISTOL GRIP

ANY AR/AK variant will have both of these features, therefore you would need a bullet button. But having a bullet button requires that you can only use 10 round magazines. Converting it to .22lr doesn't matter either as pistols are legally different than rifle and is still subjected to the laws above.

[Henry Hill]

Wow thanks for all the information! Where are you guys buying these AR pistols? Good source in state or are most from OOS transfers? I'm assuming its legal to buy a COMPLETE ar pistol lower, to be drossed as a pistol from a CA FFL?

[corrupt]

Wow thanks for all the information! Where are you guys buying these AR pistols? Good source in state or are most from OOS transfers? I'm assuming its legal to buy a COMPLETE ar pistol lower, to be drossed as a pistol from a CA FFL?

It has to be an assembled single **** pisol in order to get around the handgun roster.

Hmm I typoed single-shot, but I think I'll leave it cause it kinda makes sense.

[corrupt]

As far as where to buy one, you're going to have to contact a dealer out of state that's willing to play the neuter-for-Cali game. Or perhaps an in-state dealer that has a manufacturing license, I believe, in order to get someone to assemble it as a single-shot pistol for you. I'm sure someone from PRK Arms in Fresno would be able to point you in the right direction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Josh3239]

The now pretty much dead Anvil Arms got me my AR pistol. I am not sure if they do it, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Spike's Tactical does it.

[RideIcon]

Federally, you can legally make a "other" firearm into either a "handgun" or a "rifle" or a "shotgun".

However, CA adds additional restrictions.

In CA...
A 4473 and a DROS is done when a firearm is transfered through a FFL dealer.

(Federal) 4473 = "handgun", "long gun" or "other"
(CA) DROS = "handgun" or "long gun"

The CA DROS system does not allow "other", so recievers/frames are DROS'd as "long guns". They can not be DROS'd as "handguns", because they would need to be on the approved list.

So, a stripped AR lower reciever transfered through a CA FFL dealer will be 4473'd as an "other" but DROS'd as a "long gun".
Since, the reciever has been transfered/noted as a "long gun", making it into a "handgun" will cause it to be a SBR.

It is strongly recommended that you do not make a receiver into a handgun, unless it was DROS'd as a "handgun". Otherwise, CA DOJ could bust you for an unregistered SBR.

than why ust you be 21 to dros a lower?
I was under the impression that it is dros'ed as other

[Quiet]

than why ust you be 21 to dros a lower?
I was under the impression that it is dros'ed as other

Because of Federal law [18 USC 922(b)(1)].
Need to be 21 or older to recieve a firearm that is not a rifle or a shotgun from a FFL dealer.

DROS is state level.
4473 is federal level.

If a firearm is transfered on the 4473 as an "other", than the transferee needs to be 21 years or older.

18 USC 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;