Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

All Zumbo comments go here (was Tom Gresham on Zumbo Suicide)

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Hunter
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Mar 2006
    • 1759

    All Zumbo comments go here (was Tom Gresham on Zumbo Suicide)

    Tipping Point -- Suicide on the Web

    Something fascinating just happened. I suspect it will be studied by those who do such things, but at this point, it is clear that last weekend we saw a sea change in the way gun owners react to threats.

    If you heard Gun Talk last Sunday, Feb. 18, you heard Jim Zumbo, longtime hunting writer for Outdoor Life, addressing a blog (online comment piece) he wrote. If you didn't hear it, you can download the archive file here: http://guntalk.libsyn.com. It's the February 18 show, "part C."

    Jim basically committed career suicide. In short, he wrote in his blog on the Outdoor Life web site that he had just learned (while on a hunt) that some people use AR-15 rifles for hunting. He offered his thought that this was a bad image for hunters. Okay, that's his opinion. But, he went even further, calling for game departments to ban the use of these rifles for hunting. After crossing the line and calling for a banning of those guns for hunting, he firmly planted his foot on a land mine and called AR-15s "terrorist rifles." The explosion from that misstep was heard throughout the firearms industry.

    You see, the AR-15 is one of the most popular firearm platforms going. I own three of them and love to shoot them. I don't consider myself a terrorist, and neither do the millions of others who own them and shoot them for recreation, or who own them for personal defense. On "Personal Defense TV" we have been showing that the thinking among security trainers has moved away from the shotgun as the ideal home defense gun, and in many quarters, it now favors the AR-15 or some other carbine (short rifle).

    Zumbo had made a mistake from which there was no recovery. He wrote his blog while on a hunting trip. Just before going on the air, I checked the internet forums (fora?) and found a firestorm. People were livid, and with good reason. Some of the comments were clearly over the top, but most of them conveyed the rage that comes from a feeling of being betrayed by someone you thought of as one of your own.

    We were only 30 minutes away from going on the air for a live, three-hour broadcast, so I called Zumbo's home. He was still enroute home from his hunting trip and knew nothing about the controversy he had created. I left word that if he wanted to come on the show to make a statement, he could call in.

    During the last hour of the show, he decided to go onto Gun Talk, live. He had just posted an apology on the Outdoor Life web site. His explanation was that he just didn't know anything about these rifles, and had no idea that people actually hunted with them. I felt for Jim, but I also knew that in calling for the banning (even if only for hunting) of any gun was incredible, but calling them rifles used by terrorists was, quite simply, unconscionable.

    Having just read some of the comments on a few of the online groups where people were posting Zumbo's home address and personal information, calling for . . . well, it was hard to know what they were calling for . . . I made a comment about our willingness to eat our own. Some of that was based on hearing gunnies say that they won't buy Ruger firearms because of something Bill Ruger said two decades ago. Hey, the man is dead and buried.

    Still, in this case, I was wrong. That's not what was going on here, as I discovered when I got off the air. To listeners who took offense, I do apologize. The outrage by gun owners is completely understandable. To put it in context, Zumbo's comments came only days after we saw the introduction of a bill in Congress to bring back the Clinton Gun Ban (the so-called "assault weapons" ban). The final nail in the coffin was when-- Sunday afternoon -- the Brady Campaign (the leading group working to restrict gun rights) posted Zumbo's comments to several places on the net, saying, in effect, "See, even the top hunting writer says these rifles have no legitimate use."

    At that point, it was all over for Jim Zumbo.

    Thousands upon thousands of emails were directed to Remington and all the sponsors of Zumbo's television show on The Outdoor Channel. The emails were all pretty much the same -- dump Zumbo or I'll never buy any of your products. Remington first posted a message saying it was severing all ties with Zumbo. On Monday, the company said it was ending its sponsorship of him. Other companies followed, and it continues. Outdoor Life removed Zumbo's blog, and his apology. Each had generated thousands of comments -- almost all of them hugely negative.

    We can take away from this experience several observations.

    The first is that this attitude of "just let them take those ugly, black guns" is common among hunters and competitive shooters. Anyone with that attitude is a fool. Sit down with a hunter from England or Australia, hear him tell the story of what happened there, and watch the tears well up in his eyes when he says they never thought the government would take away their hunting guns. To gun banners, there is no such thing as a good gun. They want them all. When Tom Diaz, of the Violence Policy Center, was on Gun Talk, I forced him to admit that he would like to ban all guns. What about the police, I asked. Once we get all the other guns, he said, the police won't need their guns, either.

    A ban on black guns, or "Saturday Night Specials," or 50-caliber rifles, is a ban on all our guns. There is no such thing as a bad gun or a good gun. We can't throw babies off the back of the sled, thinking it will keep the wolves away from us.

    The next thing we learn from this is that the world has just changed. This entire episode took place inside of 36 hours, on a weekend -- a three-day weekend for President's Day. It happened...and this is important...entirely on the internet. The original posting was on the net, the reaction was on the net, the emails demanding that companies break off with Zumbo were on the net, and the reactions from the companies were all on their web sites. This was completely an internet event. It was a nuclear explosion, with tens of thousands of messages posted, spanning all the firearms-related web sites.

    How often over the last 30 years, as I fought for gun rights, traveled to Washington, DC, wrote about gun rights, spoke at the Gun Rights Policy Conference, and for the last 14 years, broadcasted about gun rights on the radio, have I lamented the inability to get gun owners motivated to protect their own rights? This powerful example shows that it can be done.

    Now, the real question is whether we can generate that kind of response when we need to defeat a gun ban. Can we melt down mail servers of elected representatives the way gun owners hammered the servers at various companies? I don't know.

    What I do know is that we are facing more calls for gun bans and restrictions on our gun rights over the next few years than we have seen in the last 40 years. Someone on the side of gun rights needs to develop a way to replicate this . . . this "Zumbo Effect" . . . to beat back the assault which has already started.

    We must find a way to "Zumbo" our attackers in Congress, in the state houses, and wherever they assault our rights.

    Tom Gresham
    Last edited by Hunter; 02-22-2007, 9:03 AM.
  • #2
    rkt88edmo
    Reptile&Samurai Moderator
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Dec 2002
    • 10062

    Originally posted by Hunter
    The next thing we learn from this is that the world has just changed. This entire episode took place inside of 36 hours, on a weekend -- a three-day weekend for President's Day. It happened...and this is important...entirely on the internet. The original posting was on the net, the reaction was on the net, the emails demanding that companies break off with Zumbo were on the net, and the reactions from the companies were all on their web sites. This was completely an internet event. It was a nuclear explosion, with tens of thousands of messages posted, spanning all the firearms-related web sites.

    How often over the last 30 years, as I fought for gun rights, traveled to Washington, DC, wrote about gun rights, spoke at the Gun Rights Policy Conference, and for the last 14 years, broadcasted about gun rights on the radio, have I lamented the inability to get gun owners motivated to protect their own rights? This powerful example shows that it can be done.

    Now, the real question is whether we can generate that kind of response when we need to defeat a gun ban. Can we melt down mail servers of elected representatives the way gun owners hammered the servers at various companies? I don't know.

    What I do know is that we are facing more calls for gun bans and restrictions on our gun rights over the next few years than we have seen in the last 40 years. Someone on the side of gun rights needs to develop a way to replicate this . . . this "Zumbo Effect" . . . to beat back the assault which has already started.

    We must find a way to "Zumbo" our attackers in Congress, in the state houses, and wherever they assault our rights.

    Tom Gresham
    This can't be emphasized enough.
    If it was a snake, it would have bit me.
    Use the goog to search calguns

    Comment

    • #3
      chickenfried
      Calguns Addict
      • Oct 2005
      • 7160

      Zumbo speaks

      on Ted Nugent's board
      Originally posted by victor1echo
      Hollywood is satan!!!!
      sigpic

      Comment

      • #4
        SemiAutoSam
        Banned
        • Apr 2006
        • 9130

        How would we know that is really DUMBO ?

        How would Nugent confirm its really him ?

        Last edited by SemiAutoSam; 02-22-2007, 7:28 PM.

        Comment

        • #5
          chickenfried
          Calguns Addict
          • Oct 2005
          • 7160

          Well Nugent said yesterday, Zumbo would be making a post today. I'm pretty sure the mods and admins wouldn't let just anyone sign up as Jim Zumbo and post in a thread that Nugent started for Jim Zumbo. But it is the internet so.........
          Originally posted by victor1echo
          Hollywood is satan!!!!
          sigpic

          Comment

          • #6
            Kestryll
            Head Janitor
            • Oct 2005
            • 21610

            Because if you read Nugent's forum a bit more you'd find they are personal friends and have been for years.
            Nugent has been trying to get people to think about rehabilitating Zumbo rather than making him a martyr thatth Brady's can latch on to.
            Apparently Nugent called Zumbo after this blew up.
            sigpic NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
            Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
            The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
            The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director.
            DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
            Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA.

            Comment

            • #7
              VeryCoolCat
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Feb 2006
              • 11275

              That guy that pretended to be from the future and post on forums sure did do a number on people.
              Originally posted by Kestryll
              The volume of blood necessary to achieve erection would cause you to either pass out or if you didn't and managed to maintain an erection you would likely die from lack of oxygen to the heart and brain.
              Originally posted by ivanimal
              Just be glad you are not his next door neighbor. I am sure there are "good tunes" flowing out the window. I am imagining a cop car pulling up at 1:30 AM asking "Are you having a party?" and Bundo sayin "Nope just me and the BG's"

              Comment

              • #8
                jester
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2002
                • 855

                Comment

                • #9
                  Technical Ted
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 12169

                  Kestryll,

                  Can you create a temporary "Zumbo" forum where all the duplicate posts can be consolidated?

                  Thanks.
                  Originally posted by ChrisTKHarris
                  That is one of the most idiotic statements I've heard. You are a retard.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    ohsmily
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 8995

                    Based on his apology, it seems that he still believes that firearms should be used for hunting purposes only. He keeps saying: "I didn't realize the AR-15 could be used for hunting." So the F what. It doesn't have to be useful for hunting to be legal, nor should that be a factor. People own AR-15's and other so-called assault weapons for many reasons; it doesn't have to be hunting. This guys hasn't changed a bit or made any ground with his apology in my view.
                    Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

                    Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Kestryll
                      Head Janitor
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 21610

                      I'll look in to it, frankly I'm tired of the Zumbo stuff. For all the damage he may have done, the Brady blog was a fake by the way, I think the damage we've done to ourselves will be worse in the long run. Just how many hunters do you think now will want to support other aspects of the 2A fight? everyone's calling for the 'Fudds' to step up and join the fight, why should they? We've just shown that we're wlling to throw them under the bus in a heartbeat. No move to educate or explain just attack.
                      Does anyone really think this does anything other than drive a bigger wedge between the different groups of fireams enthusiasts?

                      I'll see what I can do about a temp area for this stuff.

                      As far as I'm concerned the biggest thing this incident has shown is just how factionalized the shooting community is and how badly we are our own worst enemy. Since I'm too lazy to type it up this was my post elsewhere a few days ago.
                      Originally posted by Kestryll
                      I am in no way saying his article was right, justified or harmless. I do NOT think is was a proper thing to write and publish. It was insulting and ignorant.
                      But God forbid someone should be allowed to LEARN from their mistakes!
                      Damn I hope we're all perfect, I'd hate to see one of us make a bone-headed screw-up!

                      After all my years of dealing with firearms and working on restoring our 2A rights I swear the worst enemy we have is us. No one, and I mean NO ONE can destroy a gun owner faster or more completely than other gun owners, it's pathetic.

                      I am just sick of seeing this crap! This guy screwed the pooch big time and from the sounds of it is very aware of it. But oh well, we all had our pound of flesh. This guy is destroyed, his name will be bandied about the internet and reviled for the next week or so and then he'll be forgotten. On to the next poor bastard we get to crucify, vilify and revile. And then the next one a couple of weeks later.
                      No one thought this guy needs to be straightened out and made to see the truth? No one thought beyond the tar and feathers?

                      So which is more damaging to the image of firearms enthusiasts, the article or the firestorm of vitriol and anger? The ignorant posting of a web blogger or the hate-filled, profanity laced venom posted by the pageful by the more 'learned gun owners'?

                      This poor fool needed something allright, he needed to be educated, instead he was eviserated.
                      Good job everyone, I'm so damn proud to be a gun owner. Who do we go for next?
                      sigpic NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
                      Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
                      The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
                      The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director.
                      DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
                      Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        bwiese
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 27621

                        I wish everyone that was bashing Zumbo here were instead spending that time/effort and a couple of nickels to call legislators on the various ammo bills.

                        That would be far more productive.

                        Yes, Zumbo's statements can be used later by antigunners at Fed level - we're fighting a worse battle in our own backyard and need to focus on that.

                        Bill Wiese
                        San Jose, CA

                        CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
                        sigpic
                        No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
                        to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
                        ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
                        employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
                        legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Kestryll
                          Head Janitor
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 21610

                          Originally posted by ohsmily
                          Based on his apology, it seems that he still believes that firearms should be used for hunting purposes only. He keeps saying: "I didn't realize the AR-15 could be used for hunting." So the F what. It doesn't have to be useful for hunting to be legal, nor should that be a factor. People own AR-15's and other so-called assault weapons for many reasons; it doesn't have to be hunting. This guys hasn't changed a bit or made any ground with his apology in my view.
                          For all the fact that most of us here think of fireams in a Second Amnedment frame of mind and not with a hunting focus we need to remember that there re hundreds of thousands maybe even millions of gun owners for whom the 2nd Amendment only concerns them as it relates to their deer rifle.

                          Right or wrong these are the people we need to step up and join the fight and this was a perfect example of why they mght not.

                          In some ways we are just as myopic as he was. To him it is all about hunting, that's what he does, to it's all about rights. The trick has always been to get those two camps together. I'm not sure if this last furball has made that easier or harder, time will tell.
                          Last edited by Kestryll; 02-22-2007, 10:36 AM.
                          sigpic NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA Life Member / SAF Life Member
                          Calguns.net an incorported entity - President.
                          The Calguns Shooting Sports Assoc. - Vice President.
                          The California Rifle & Pistol Assoc. - Director.
                          DONATE TO NRA-ILA, CGSSA, AND CRPAF NOW!
                          Opinions posted in this account are my own and unless specifically stated as such are not the approved position of Calguns.net, CGSSA or CRPA.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            E Pluribus Unum
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Dec 2006
                            • 8098

                            He made a mistake that cost him his 30 year career. He has lost everything. I think that is punishment enough.

                            He is probably only apologising to save face and maybe get back into the industry after a few years but at the very least it sends a message to others; we are united in our cause. It shows that it is not just about "hunting" and that anyone who thinks that will be stripped of rank and thrown to the dogs.
                            Originally posted by Alan Gura
                            The Second Amendment now applies to state and local governments. Our lawsuit is a reminder to state and local bureaucrats that we have a Bill of Rights in this country, not a Bill of Needs
                            Originally posted by hoffmang
                            12050[CCW] licenses will be shall issue soon.

                            -Gene
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              royta
                              Member
                              • Dec 2006
                              • 168

                              That is such crap. He's trying to tell us that with his vast hunting experience, that he has never heard of anybody coyote hunting with an AR-15? Does he really think we're that stupid? There is no doubt in my mind that Jim Zumbo is a liar.
                              Well, the fact is that politicians don't get votes via logic, but an emotional public. Work 'em up, throw out some platitudes, get the votes.
                              It's like being a pimp, but without the integrity. - triggerhappy

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              UA-8071174-1