Ammo exchange index?

[Macadelic4]

In the US., any of us can get a license to trade securities, commodities futures, options, etc. We can also subscribe to real-time information about the values of these investment vehicles, and there is usually some index associated with the products.

Most futures, however, are based on agricultural and industrial products. Does anyone know why ammo doesn't (or couldn't) have some sort of similar authoritative index that is updated in real-time? Is there some sort of legal red tape that the SEC has put up, or did the SEC just decide that ammo contracts/ammo market value aren't interesting enough to trade/track?

BTW, I found that Ayoob mentions this here.

[paul0660]

There are many varieties of ammo; one would have to be decided on. 7.62x25 futures would be much different than .380

[freakshow10mm]

Ammunition is never an investment in the traditional sense.

[caoboy]

Ammunition is never an investment in the traditional sense.

It is when you buy at walmart for dirt cheap, and sell on CG or GB for 2-3 times as much.

[bohoki]

ammo is not fungible like say bacon or orange juice

too many different "bullets" various hollow points fmj shapes plated copper,and the "lead boolets"

then there are different loading hot vs mild

its a little bit like salsa thick and chunky pace is nothing like the watery herdez

[Macadelic4]

Ammunition is never an investment in the traditional sense.

Quite true, although it does derive some of its value from raw materials from which it is made. But the "legislative value" it has is very non-traditional.

Would CGNers be interested in an informal ammo index that tracks contracts or purchases on CGN or some other website? Would an authoritative index be useful?

(tries to hide interest in possibly implementing such a system)

[paul0660]

Ammunition is never an investment in the traditional sense.

That does not matter. There merely has to be a price that changes and an agreement on a standard and amount to be traded. There are, for instance, futures markets for computer memory chips and bulk wine, both of which can go up and down like crazy.

[Macadelic4]

ammo is not fungible like say bacon or orange juice

too many different "bullets" various hollow points fmj shapes plated copper,and the "lead boolets"

then there are different loading hot vs mild

its a little bit like salsa thick and chunky pace is nothing like the watery herdez

I think the analogous structures in futures exchanges would be like how "corn" is broken down into "corn meal", "corn oil", etc. etc.

Admittedly, ammo would still be more complex due to the many varieties, but there could be come simplification (limit it to cases, jacketing, and bullet weight, eg.) to make such a system manageable.

[Macadelic4]

ETA a poll to see what level of complexity a theoretical exchange index would have if you had an interest in referring to/following one.

[a1c]

Ammo is a commodity just like coffee, wine grapes and steel.

Yes, there are several levels of quality and other factors. Just like for coffee, wine grapes and steel.

[freakshow10mm]

It is when you buy at walmart for dirt cheap, and sell on CG or GB for 2-3 times as much.

That's isn't in the traditional sense of trade securities, is it?

Quite true, although it does derive some of its value from raw materials from which it is made. But the "legislative value" it has is very non-traditional.

Would CGNers be interested in an informal ammo index that tracks contracts or purchases on CGN or some other website? Would an authoritative index be useful?

(tries to hide interest in possibly implementing such a system)

I fail to understand the importance, practicality, or logic in having such a system. I don't get what the point is.

That does not matter. There merely has to be a price that changes and an agreement on a standard and amount to be traded. There are, for instance, futures markets for computer memory chips and bulk wine, both of which can go up and down like crazy.

There is no way to track all price changes.

[pullnshoot25]

Macadelic4 and I have discussed this idea in the past and I do not think the idea is to create a futures market but rather a way to track ammo trends, price statistics, etc.

Factors that I feel would be important:

Bullet type- going down to several major categories should simplify things
Corrosive or not- pretty important to most people
Price per round- manually dividing sucks and a per round price
Composition
Steel case or not
Weight
Brand

[freakshow10mm]

So if all it does is track price and type, what will it do that the half dozen or so ammo search websites don't already do?

[paul0660]

I don't think there is much point to it, but it is fun to think about trading ammo futs. Ag futures contracts are generally in truckload amounts, and 40,000 lbs of ammo is a lot of booolets.

[Macadelic4]

So if all it does is track price and type, what will it do that the half dozen or so ammo search websites don't already do?

The difference, in my view of a perfect system, would be that it would track small-scale ammo purchases and not just what prices companies are offering ammo for. The people that make markets are sometimes the little guys who can introduce supply into the markets that has a different price than what retailers are selling for.

Example: Company X sells its stock at price Y, but there is one guy who has been holding onto the stock since it was Y/3. You could buy the stock from the company's broker, or you could use the guy who is willing to sell it to you at Y/2.

Implementation is problematic, to say the least. It might do this by parsing CGN WTB posts, having people list what they sold the ammo for, whatever. But the concept is interesting if anyone wanted to take a stab at it. In fact, if ammo sales on CGN used structured fields (aforementioned factors like bullet weight), it would be possible to collect enough data to make some sort of real-time chart for CGN. Helps people decide what price the market warrants, or just makes pretty graphs.