.45 ACP & Mountain Lions & Black Bears

[bubbagump]

I plan on carrying my 1911 on most of my hikes. I used to carry a 12 Gauge or .270, but the 1911 is handier, especially when carrying heavy loads or scrambling over structures.

I know .45 ACP is NOT the ideal caliber for Mountain Lions/Black Bears...but I'm honestly more worried about weight/compactness and "two-legged" critters.

So, if I had to use the .45 ACP on a Mountain Lion/Black Bear...what would be the BEST load for my 1911. Hand loading is not an option because I currently do not reload...so I have to settle for factory loads...what do you guys think?

Also, I will be open carrying the 1911. Does a thigh holster fly under the definition of 12025(f)?

[Steyrlp10]

I like the 1911 in the .45, but for an animal as big as a bear... I think the hunters on this site will give you some great info. Me, I think anything other than a kill shot is going to just tick it off.

Friends of mine who like hunting wild boar with handguns used a .357 or larger.

Facing an animal with paws the size of frying pans just makes me stay outa their territory. And, that's why I stick to fishing bass and dozing in the sun

[Snapping Twig]

Look at what Buffalo Bore and other specialty ammo suppliers have to offer.

Woefully inadequate, but useful in a pinch and possibly successful would be a 230g cast bullet with a large metplat at @ 900fps.

Seems like it's time for you to start reloading, that or buy a .44.

[Mitch]

Facing an animal with paws the size of frying pans just makes me stay outa their territory.

Black bears (which is all the bears we have anymore in California, except for what's on the flag) are actually pretty harmless, for the most part.

Mountain lions are a different story, but every account of a mountain lion attack I have ever read suggested that they don't give their victims a lot of time to draw a bead before they strike. Luckily mountain lion attacks are very, very rare.

[bubbagump]

I like the 1911 in the .45, but for an animal as big as a bear... I think the hunters on this site will give you some great info. Me, I think anything other than a kill shot is going to just tick it off.

Friends of mine who like hunting wild boar with handguns used a .357 or larger.

Facing an animal with paws the size of frying pans just makes me stay outa their territory. And, that's why I stick to fishing bass and dozing in the sun

I wonder if a head shot would even penetrate a bears skull...

[bubbagump]

Look at what Buffalo Bore and other specialty ammo suppliers have to offer.

Woefully inadequate, but useful in a pinch and possibly successful would be a 230g cast bullet with a large metplat at @ 900fps.

Seems like it's time for you to start reloading, that or buy a .44.

I will check out buffalo bore. Thank You.

[bubbagump]

Black bears (which is all the bears we have anymore in California, except for what's on the flag) are actually pretty harmless, for the most part.

Mountain lions are a different story, but every account of a mountain lion attack I have ever read suggested that they don't give their victims a lot of time to draw a bead before they strike. Luckily mountain lion attacks are very, very rare.

I'm pretty sure most black bears run away when they hear/smell/see you coming. Unless they're those bears that raid campgrounds...I heard those are persistent/brave. I'm thinking bear spray or loud noises would do the trick to scare most of them away.

Mountains lions worry me more than bears...

[JDoe]

This guy (Les Jones) would go for something hot and non-hollow point.

If it were me I'd probably look at Speer 53654 or a Buffalo Bore 230 grain FMJ FN.

When Handguns are Better Than Long Guns, Part 1

I'd take the 45-70. I'd also take a handgun (Sorry to open up a whole 'nother can of worms). I've done quite a bit of research on bear attacks in Alaska.
It appears that there are a number of traits common in the successful repulsion of surprise bear attacks with a firearm:

1. The person had a gun. Seriously, the most important factor in surviving the attack was that the person had a gun they could reach instantly, i.e., in a holster, not propped up against a nearby tree, in the truck, in the cabin, etc.

2. The person had a handgun. Some of the attacks were repelled by one buddy with a handgun when the other buddy could not raise his longgun fast enough. This occurs more often than you would think.

3. Smaller calibers are effective. This is the one that shocked me. Although some of the successful folks used .44 mags or .45 LC's, a number of them used 9mm's and .40 cals (and some were using ball ammo). In one account in particular, two buddies were fishing. A brown bear charged one buddy so fast, he couldn't raise his shotgun to fire, so he threw it at the bear and dove into the water. His companion shot the bear with a 9mm pistol (ball ammo), and one of the shots broke the bear's shoulder. Once the bear was disabled, other fishermen joined in with their handguns and killed the bear.

4. The handgun appears to be effective because it is always there. The hunter/fisherman draws and shoots in an instant. The handgun might not kill the bear, but it often disables the bear sufficiently for the hunter/his companion to procure another handgun/long gun and then the bear is killed. Some locals have said "use the handgun to fight your way back to your rifle".

5. One last surprise. Urban legends aside, I found no documented evidence where an outdoorsman was able to shoot the bear (regardless of caliber) but was unable to repel the attack. There were some close calls, but nobody who got off a shot died. Not saying it hasn't happened, just saying I haven't seen it.

6. Final recommendation. If it were me, I'd bring something like a Glock/XD etc that is light enough to carry with me everywhere I go. I'd load something hot and non-hollow point.

[Mitch]

I'm pretty sure most black bears run away when they hear/smell/see you coming. Unless they're those bears that raid campgrounds...I heard those are persistent/brave.

Those have learned not to fear humans. But generally they are unlikely to otherwise bother anyone if they are left alone. Just a bit of property damage.

This is learned behavior. Until recently, the bears of the San Gorgonio Wilderness avoided backpackers and their campsites. But now there are some very active bears along the Vivian Creek trail, so active the trail was closed for most of this summer and a couple of trail camps are still closed.

But elsewhere in the Wilderness Area the bears have yet to associate campers with food. Twice in the last few months I have seen bear tracks suggesting bears have come into our camps to investigate during the night, but left pretty quickly once they realized there were people sleeping nearby. In once case, a small bear was sniffing around a kitchen area where we had left dirty dishes (too much wine that night). The bear didn't touch anything before leaving. I think he was just curious.

We use bearproof food containers so that the bears (outside the Vivian Creek area) never learn to associate hikers with food. Once they make that connection it's all over.

[Scoutout]

If it must be a 1911, I would load up on +p 230 gr. FMJs and keep my eyes open for a gently used sp101 in .357.

[Lapietra]

When I am fishing or hunting, I bring my G32 .357 sig. When I am hiking I have a small light weight five shot 357 mag. If I was to carry a .45 I would go with 230 gr FMJ.

[Snapping Twig]

As an animal ages they slow down and can no longer successfully gather prey. Mountain lions are no different here.

Mountain lion attacks are purposley overlooked and covered up - there IS an agenda at play here.

I have encountered them and was tracked by a nasty one in particular - won't say what happened, but it's no longer tracking hunters.

My former BIL was attacked by one - he shot it as it leapt at him.

Bears with cubs are probably the most feared animal to run across, but by and large, bears avoid us. Had a run-in with a sow and 3 cubs, but all ended well, no one was harmed. Bears don't worry me overtly. Respect them and give them a wide berth.

Mountain lions - not so much. If you see one, you're on the menu.

A fine expose on this is found in Western Outdoor News, Vloume 52, Number 28, July 9, 2004



An excerpt:

[odysseus]

Mountain lion attacks are purposley overlooked and covered up - there IS an agenda at play here.

I haven't any proof of that myself, but I have also felt this way as well. The attacks when reported are pretty bad; you have to fight to live.

[Mitch]

Mountain lion attacks are purposley overlooked and covered up - there IS an agenda at play here.

Who's behind the agenda, developers? The only reason mountain lion attacks have become more common is because of loss of habitat due to development.

[ElDiabloRobotico]

Mountain lion attacks are purposely overlooked and covered up - there IS an agenda at play here.

interesting. this is the first i've heard of this. what do think the reasons are for the cover up?