DROS Question

[k1dude]

Ah. I get it. Since it's coming from out of state, the dealer basically had to put it in his inventory and do a resale. So he needs to pay tax. Got it.

I withdraw my previous criticism.

[Standard]

Ah. I get it. Since it's coming from out of state, the dealer basically had to put it in his inventory and do a resale. So he needs to pay tax. Got it.

I withdraw my previous criticism.

That's what it sounds like to me too.
Thanks a lot guys. I'll keep this in mind next time I buy a firearm from out of state.

[Mike's Custom]

Ah. I get it. Since it's coming from out of state, the dealer basically had to put it in his inventory and do a resale. So he needs to pay tax. Got it.

I withdraw my previous criticism.

Exactly.

[sv_1]

I have been told that as long as it is a Dealer Sale on the DROS it is taxable. There are no "out of state transfers" in CA since transfers can only take place between CA residents. That makes it pretty simple to me.

One reason "transfers" are cheaper outside CA is they do not have to do anywhere near the paperwork and record keeping that we have to do. We also have to hold the firearm for days and the liablilty in CA is much higher then most other states. We have to deal with both the FEDs and the DOJ while other states just deal with the FEDs and each one has different things we MUST do. If you look at most business that have hourly rates you will see most of them are atleast $75 or more per hour. And in Ca it takes a hour or more for the process. It actually takes a little more time to do DTs then just ordering a firearm from a wholesaler. FFL dealers should be able to make a decent hourly wage on PPTs but the state limits us to $10 and htat isn't even minimum wage for the time spent. Just with all the copies we have to make and provide both parties it costs us a few bucks.

I've PPT'd at several FFL's that got me in and out in less than 10 minutes including BSing. Is there more behind the scenes stuff after I leave?

[tenpercentfirearms]

If it is a sale from a private party, it is an occasional sale and not subject to sales tax. Only when you buy the firearm from another retailer out of state am I considered the retailer in state and I must pay the sales tax (I don't pay use tax for you, I pay sales tax).

See post 37 and 38 in this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=218629&highlight=retail+boe&page=2

[Mike's Custom]

I've PPT'd at several FFL's that got me in and out in less than 10 minutes including BSing. Is there more behind the scenes stuff after I leave?

You can't do a PPT in 10 mins. No way. The dealer has to spend time logging in and out and in a out of state purchase there are licenses to be copied and exchanged. You might gtea 4473 filled out by the customer in 10 minutes but that is rare. It takes about the same time for the dealer to fill out his portion of the 4473. Making 2 copies of the DROS takes a couple minutes and PPTs are even longer. Long guns are the fasted to do beause there is no demonstrations or gun info to do but not by a lot.

In a study done in 2004 by NSSF ( if remember correctly) that firearms sell for a average or 20% over cost. With all the federal states paperwork and cost of copies and supplies in processing a firearm they said a FFL dealer in Ca loses just over $14 per sale based on a average rate of $25 per hour wage. Considering that $25 sounds pretty good the dealer is still losing money based on cost expenditures and time. Since most of us have to supply our own insurance also based on that $25 per hour rate it makes you wonder why we do it. I will see if I can find that data but is was a while ago and a couple computers ago too.

[Barney Gumble]

If it is a sale from a private party, it is an occasional sale and not subject to sales tax. Only when you buy the firearm from another retailer out of state am I considered the retailer in state and I must pay the sales tax (I don't pay use tax for you, I pay sales tax).

See post 37 and 38 in this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ail+boe&page=2

+1

Your FFL should not be charging tax on the transfer of a firearm from another individual (non-retailer).

[Standard]

He said the program wouldn't let him put it in as a PPT since it was from out of state, and therefore he was liable for the tax on it, which is why he was charging me tax for the purchase price.
I guess there's no way around it?

[halifax]

He said the program wouldn't let him put it in as a PPT since it was from out of state, and therefore he was liable for the tax on it, which is why he was charging me tax for the purchase price.
I guess there's no way around it?

You are right. There is no way around it if he's not going to do it with out charging tax.

But like Wes pointed out:

See post 37 and 38 in this thread.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ail+boe&page=2

It's his business and if that is the way he wants to interpret things that's up to him.

[Barney Gumble]

He said the program wouldn't let him put it in as a PPT since it was from out of state, and therefore he was liable for the tax on it, which is why he was charging me tax for the purchase price.
I guess there's no way around it?

Well he's got your pistol there so getting it to a different FFL just to save the tax $$ would be a pain in the butt.

You could print out the text from the BOE that Wes gave in his other thread and see if that convinces him but if not I wouldn't push it.

[jaymz]

How does he know how much you paid for it?
Me: You are going to charge me tax on this?
FFL: State says I have to. What did you pay for it?
Me: $1.00. Pretty smokin' deal, huh?

[halifax]

How does he know how much you paid for it?
Me: You are going to charge me tax on this?
FFL: State says I have to. What did you pay for it?
Me: $1.00. Pretty smokin' deal, huh?

That always works at the DMV

[Standard]

Haha, good idea. I already told him though.
No biggie I guess. Extra $45 is all. Sucks, but not the end of the world.

[barrykay]

How does he know how much you paid for it?
Me: You are going to charge me tax on this?
FFL: State says I have to. What did you pay for it?
Me: $1.00. Pretty smokin' deal, huh?

Wrong. The processing FFL can determine a "fair" resale value in three ways.
(1) Base it on the same already in there store
(2) Get an average sell on gun broker for like kind.
(3) Use "Blue Book of Gun Values" to determiner a fair value.

These are approved by the B.O.E. To add to that, if the B.O.E. audits you and finds a number collected taxes based on a reductions of low sale amount, they in fact will charge the dealer for the balance.

[halifax]

Wrong. The processing FFL can determine a "fair" resale value in three ways.
(1) Base it on the same already in there store
(2) Get an average sell on gun broker for like kind.
(3) Use "Blue Book of Gun Values" to determiner a fair value.

These are approved by the B.O.E. To add to that, if the B.O.E. audits you and finds a number collected taxes based on a reductions of low sale amount, they in fact will charge the dealer for the balance.

And if you are really annoying, then MSRP.