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Counter-Intelligence and the Gun Rights Movement

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  • Alaric
    Banned
    • Sep 2008
    • 3216

    Counter-Intelligence and the Gun Rights Movement

    It exists.

    Thoughts?

    I'll get it started. Every civil rights movement in America in the past 50 years has been the subject of intensive counter-intelligence at the hands of domestic counter intelligence agencies in the form of the following:

    - infiltration - placement of informants and operatives to report on and operate within the subject environment.

    - subversion - operatives work to subvert the movement to the will of the state, or otherwise to undermine the goals of the movement through any means.

    - deception - This can take whatever form presents itself as an opportunity. Deception can even come in the form as opportunity for a movement, or a "win".

    - deviant cooperation - Sometimes tying a group to another group can undermine it, through political means or the operative status of the compromised group.

    - co-opt of leadership - The FBI has been known to undermine groups through deep infiltration, even to the point where they start new groups and instill their own agents as leadership. This is documented in the case of civil rights groups of the 60's.

    - coersion and "turning" of informants within the movement - Sometimes the threat of a legal charge can create the leverage needed to "develope" a witness, even where no crime has been done.

    - dissemination of falsehoods and propaganda - a tried and true method to destroy ideas and movements.

    There's more.

    I'm in this to win, as are most of you. As of, well, sometime a few years ago, we became a full-fledged civil rights movement. It kinda happened without anyone noticing, but IT HAPPENED. We're here, we're armed, and we want our rights.

    I have no illusions that we've become a target of counter-intelligence in at least one 3-letter agency. I'm not a tinfoil hat wearer, this is logic folks.

    Please discuss, and focus on counter-intelligence methodology.
    I'm in this to win, not to be undermined by guys in bad suits.
    Last edited by Alaric; 10-21-2009, 10:21 PM. Reason: spelling correction
  • #2
    Alaric
    Banned
    • Sep 2008
    • 3216

    I'm starting to think I should've posted this in 2nd Amd....

    Comment

    • #3
      audihenry
      Veteran Member
      • Feb 2008
      • 2909

      What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

      You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.

      Comment

      • #4
        M. D. Van Norman
        Veteran Member
        • Jul 2002
        • 4168

        Did such so-called counter-intelligence ever stop any bona fide civil-rights movement?
        Matthew D. Van Norman
        Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA

        Comment

        • #5
          Mitch
          Mostly Harmless
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Mar 2008
          • 6574

          None of that stuff is applicable to a group of law-abiding people.
          Originally posted by cockedandglocked
          Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.

          Comment

          • #6
            Lone_Gunman
            Calguns Addict
            • Jan 2009
            • 8396

            We have lawyers, guns, and money. We will be fine.

            -LG

            Comment

            • #7
              trinydex
              Veteran Member
              • Feb 2008
              • 4720

              Originally posted by Mitch
              None of that stuff is applicable to a group of law-abiding people.
              Originally posted by M. D. Van Norman
              Did such so-called counter-intelligence ever stop any bona fide civil-rights movement?
              just to support the op's point, i think the civil rights movement had both law abiding participation and their momentum was drastically changed due to some involvement of three letter agencies.

              i don't necessarily believe one way or the other, just posing the views for discussion.

              Comment

              • #8
                Dirtbiker
                Veteran Member
                • Dec 2007
                • 2810

                Just keep an eye on the guy wearing wingtips...
                To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

                Thomas Jefferson

                Comment

                • #9
                  Barney Gumble
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 1047

                  Government surveillance or intervention in social movements can have short term impacts on specific events but it's not going to stop major social movements.

                  If you're worried about gun rights I wouldn't sweat it. Public opinion has been moving pro-gun on a massive scale for many years, even in the face of Columbine, VA Tech, etc. There may be temporary setbacks but the train has already left the station and they can't push it back.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    dwtt
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 7470

                    Originally posted by Alaric
                    I'll get it started. Every civil rights movement in America in the past 50 years has been the subject of intensive counter-intelligence at the hands of domestic counter intelligence agencies in the form of the following:

                    - deviant cooperation - Sometimes tying a group to another group can undermine it, through political means or the operative status of the compromised group.

                    - dissemination of falsehoods and propaganda - a tried and true method to destroy ideas and movements.
                    This sounds like the Brady bunch. Have you seen their press releases and propaganda? Maybe you can report their activities to a 3-letter agency.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Sunwolf
                      Calguns Addict
                      • May 2008
                      • 7445

                      Originally posted by Lone_Gunman
                      We have lawyers, guns, and money. We will be fine.

                      -LG
                      That only works in Honduras,Warren!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Lone_Gunman
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 8396

                        California is looking more and more like a bannana republic...

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          jdberger
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                          CGN Contributor
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 8944

                          Originally posted by audihenry
                          What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

                          You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.
                          ^^^Could this be a better illustration of the OP's post?^^^

                          *************

                          We've had detractors, naysayers and trolls for a while. Fortunately, we've an amorphous cadre of Seniors who are capable of shaping the discussion toward something positive and away from internicine conflict.

                          I'm not too worried at this point.
                          Rest in Peace - Andrew Breitbart. A true student of Alinsky.

                          90% of winning is simply showing up.

                          "Let's not lose sight of how much we reduced our carbon footprint by telecommuting this protest." 383green

                          sigpic
                          NRA Benefactor Member

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            B Strong
                            CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                            CGN Contributor
                            • Feb 2009
                            • 6367

                            Originally posted by audihenry
                            What's your point? You have no chance against the FBI, CIA, etc. As you said, every single group that has come against the status quo has been infiltrated, destroyed, etc.

                            You just pretend that you live in a land of the free and home of the brave and go about your daily business with an empty gun in your car.
                            In our case, we absolutely do, and we do it here on CGN every day of the week -

                            When somebody brings up an issue outside of the established legal guidelines that would expose you/me/us to involvement in a criminal act, they get shown the door.

                            End of story.

                            You can't subvert what won't cross the line.
                            The way some gunshop clerks spout off, you'd think that they invented gunpowder and the repeating rifle, and sat on the Supreme Court as well.
                            ___________________________________________
                            "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
                            - Jeff Cooper

                            Check my current auctions on Gunbroker - user name bigbasscat - see what left California before Roberti-Roos

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