Integral Suppressors

[justin_5585]

So, I've been thinking a lot about the california suppressor laws, and it made me start to wonder about this.

I understand that a seperate silencer that attaches to an existing firearm and lessens its report is clearly defined and untouchable in California (as no one can get that tax stamp), but what about integral suppressors (I'm thinking of the .22 pistols or 10/22's that have a full custom barrel)?

The reason it seems this could get around it is say you have a 10/22 with a 16" barrell. If you added a 28" custom bull barrel or something allong those lines, I'm sure that it would reduce the report in measurable decibels. This is not illegal, but it does "supress" the sound from the guns factory conditions.

If the argument is that an integratted supressed barrel is aftermarket, what if a company made a new gun that ONLY came with such a barrel. Would it then be illegal, because it is "too quiet"?


I hope this makes sense, forgive me for rambling, I am just working the graveyard, and pondering asinine legislature...

[B.D.Dubloon]

I wish, but I doubt that would fly.

[technique]

nope...probly ain't going to happen. You can keep dreaming, or donate to the CGF for quicker results.

[Noobert]

They will always find a way to make anything illegal

[Telperion]

12500 defines a silencer as "any device or attachment of any kind designed, used, or intended for use in silencing, diminishing, or muffling the report of a firearm" so the plain reading is it encompasses integral devices.

[Pvt. Cowboy]

What the OP describes is prohibited without NFA registration.

Here's a perfectly CA-legal way to enjoy the exact same experience as a suppressed firearm:

1. Get a bolt-action .22 with around a 20" barrel. I picked up an antique Springfield Model 15 for $50 that fits the bill.

2. Get a 500 round brick of Aguila 60gr Subsonic Super Sniper .22 ammo.

This combo will be about as loud as you can snap your fingers.

[justin_5585]

What the OP describes is prohibited without NFA registration.

Here's a perfectly CA-legal way to enjoy the exact same experience as a suppressed firearm:

1. Get a bolt-action .22 with around a 20" barrel. I picked up an antique Springfield Model 15 for $50 that fits the bill.

2. Get a 500 round brick of Aguila 60gr Subsonic Super Sniper .22 ammo.

This combo will be about as loud as you can snap your fingers.

Hence my point. That gun is quiter than it would be with a 6 inch barrel (say if it were legal for arguments sake). Therefore, per the law, isn't the 20 inch barrel a "silencer", as it diminishes the report in comparisson to the 6 incher?

[justin_5585]

12500 defines a silencer as "any device or attachment of any kind designed, used, or intended for use in silencing, diminishing, or muffling the report of a firearm" so the plain reading is it encompasses integral devices.

So given the verbage of this used to quiet the report, even if unintentional, would then cover swapping a 16" barrel to a 28 inch barrel on a rifle, as with that much more room for gas too cool/slow, the report will diminish (albeit minimal). Does that make barrel swaps illegal (and I hope to god my logic does not give the antis ammunition to ban that too!)?

[The Director]

What if it was the ol' muzzle brake vs flash hider thing? We've all seen some pretty serious flash hiders be labelled as muzzle brakes.

So you invent a pistol that has an integral silencer (i.e. non-removable) and call it a "barrel cooler" ....an unintended side effect is that it's whisper quiet.....

[justin_5585]

What if it was the ol' muzzle brake vs flash hider thing? We've all seen some pretty serious flash hiders be labelled as muzzle brakes.

So you invent a pistol that has an integral silencer (i.e. non-removable) and call it a "barrel cooler" ....an unintended side effect is that it's whisper quiet.....

Or a barrel with built in wipes called a "velocity reducer and bullet cleaner"

[B Strong]

So, I've been thinking a lot about the california suppressor laws, and it made me start to wonder about this.

I understand that a seperate silencer that attaches to an existing firearm and lessens its report is clearly defined and untouchable in California (as no one can get that tax stamp), but what about integral suppressors (I'm thinking of the .22 pistols or 10/22's that have a full custom barrel)?

The reason it seems this could get around it is say you have a 10/22 with a 16" barrell. If you added a 28" custom bull barrel or something allong those lines, I'm sure that it would reduce the report in measurable decibels. This is not illegal, but it does "supress" the sound from the guns factory conditions.

If the argument is that an integratted supressed barrel is aftermarket, what if a company made a new gun that ONLY came with such a barrel. Would it then be illegal, because it is "too quiet"?


I hope this makes sense, forgive me for rambling, I am just working the graveyard, and pondering asinine legislature...

A simple barrel w/o attachments or devices designed to lessen the Db level of the report is not a suppressor -you could hang a 36" barrel on a .22 and the only one that would care is the poor bastard that would have to clean it after firing.

An integral suppressor with the tube permanently mounted to an NFA firearm (SBR or MG) does get around having a second tax stamp though.

[jaymz]

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds reasonable to me. Especially if "any device or attachment of any kind designed, used, or intended for use in silencing, diminishing, or muffling the report of a firearm" is the actual verbiage used. By that plain and simple definition, my ear plugs are a silencer, and so are ear muffs, fingers............you get the idea!

[holyhandgrenade]

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds reasonable to me. Especially if "any device or attachment of any kind designed, used, or intended for use in silencing, diminishing, or muffling the report of a firearm" is the actual verbiage used. By that plain and simple definition, my ear plugs are a silencer, and so are ear muffs, fingers............you get the idea!

That doesnt actually muffle the sound of the report, just your perception of it.

[Big D]

So is an indoor shooting range a silencer?

[B Strong]

So is an indoor shooting range a silencer?

Only if you can attach it to the firearm in question.