Front Sight / GunSite Classes

[Wulf]

Oh, and finally, when I was at Frontsight, students were not allowed to carry a loaded pistol when away from the actual range. At Gunsite, everybody - students, staff, even the maintenance staff, carried loaded pistols while on the facility. Don't know if this is significant, but it does suggest a level of trust placed in the students by the establishment. Of course, things might have changed at Frontsight since I was there.

Hope this didn't bore you.

Have you ever heard the FS "Tailguner" rumor?

[The Brit]

Milspec45

Are you going down with Ron's group.

Jerry

If this was directed towards me, no. This is an independent trip.

[The Brit]

Have you ever heard the FS "Tailguner" rumor?

No, pray tell.....

[Exiledviking]

Originally Posted by Wulf
Have you ever heard the FS "Tailguner" rumor?

No, pray tell.....

This is gonna get interesting!

[Wulf]

Well, the rumor goes is that one of the duties that rotates amongst the FS junior instructors is the position of "Tailgunner". Apparently the Big Kahuna has concerns for his safety and feels that some member of the audience present when he does his lecturing for the classes might wish to do him harm. The job of Tailgunner consists of showing up locked and loaded to the class room (and Sales!) portions of FS classes, and then to stand alertly at the back of the room, prepared to shoot in the back , over the heads of the rest of the students, anybody who would advance with posture that suggests he ment to harm the linch pin of the whole operation.

You'd think a 5 Gun Combat Master (tm) could handle that kind of thing himself but apparently not.

[The Brit]

Well, the rumor goes is that one of the duties that rotates amongst the FS junior instructors is the position of "Tailgunner". Apparently the Big Kahuna has concerns for his safety and feels that some member of the audience present when he does his lecturing for the classes might wish to do him harm. The job of Tailgunner consists of showing up locked and loaded to the class room (and Sales!) portions of FS classes, and then to stand alertly at the back of the room, prepared to shoot in the back , over the heads of the rest of the students, anybody who would advance with posture that suggests he ment to harm the linch pin of the whole operation.

Now, that is funny!

[zinfull]

Milspec45

I located in Healdsburg. Plan on flying out of Sacro.

Jerry

[GW]

I've heard that rumor and thats all it is--A rumor
His instructors are always hanging around the room after classes, handing out certificates etc AND they are packing as the instructors should be. But tailgunner? Everybody is too tired at the end of a class to attack anyone and, as it sounds like you've been to one of those classes you know that everyone is generally feeling pretty good about themselves/tired/wanting their grad certificates. Heck that classroom is probably the safest place in the world for Naish

Now outside that classroom where the class action suit is going on...

[dw1784]

I took the 4day Handgun course at Front Sight in 05.
Piazza was there only for the beginning intro of the class then Wes ran the show for the rest of the course. During the presentations and indoor instructions it was ran by Brad Akerman. The entire time I was there, Piazza was nowhere to be found. Perhaps the school runs differently now than when you guys where there. Plus unloading your weapon is part of the discipline-rendering it safe. Same thing you do at any shooting range.

The instructors were very nice and they'll tell you if you have a better way they'll listen to your suggestion. They've been or were faculties of other schools. They are aware of the differences. The class is geared towards beginners and all comers. In my class, we had a good mix of men/women. Most were novice, a few LE and a few current mil. They came from all over the country and 2 of them flew in from South Africa.

I haven't been to other schools so this is just my observations: go see for yourself. What works for him may not apply to you. I didn't care about the "sale" job either, but I was too busy with my lunch anyways. Whatever Brad said, it went in one ear and out the other ear. Besides, if you've been to Front Sight before, you don't have to sit there and watch the presentation, you can be at the range doing your drills. There were 80+ in the handgun classes, mix of 2-2day class and 2-4day class. I'm sure they're not counting heads as to who's gotten the pitch and who hasn't.

For those that's going, you're going to have a lot of fun! ammo at Front sight can get pricy. Stock up on supply at Walmart in Pahrump. Bring cold weather gear, lotions and chapsticks- it gets cold and dry but can get hot too. Have fun guys

[tedbeemer]

Is Suarez back in 'good graces"? I thought that after the insurance fraud and his "burning of many bridges" that he was on the "sh.... list" of many in the training community.

[rkt88edmo]

Is Suarez back in 'good graces"? I thought that after the insurance fraud and his "burning of many bridges" that he was on the "sh.... list" of many in the training community.

I don't think he is back in good graces with most of the people he "burned bridges" with in the past but he has done a bang up job marketing his training courses and has a lot of happy customers. There are plenty of people who want nothing to do with him, but also plenty who do.

The number of trainers out there offering courses to the general public seems to have skyrocketed in the last 10 years as many people who worked for schools have continued to spin off and develop their own thing. It is kind of like we now have the "students of the students" or 3rd wave/generation of instructors.

[Dont Tread on Me]

I think Suarez is giving the best training out there with his focus on force on force. I've taken Gunsite style courses (Walt Marshall) and while it is good for the fundermentals, it is like do kata in Karate. You need to spar also.

On the business side he is a lot smaller than the "established" schools so he can change his curriculum more easily. He is certainly marketing himself by listing the bad points of the big schools courses and himself as being on the right path.

No idea about the insurance fraud. What was that about?

I'd also consider Tactical Response. They are excellent.

[Wulf]

It is kind of like we now have the "students of the students" or 3rd wave/generation of instructors.

I dont really think its fair to put Gabe in that category. Everybody learned from somebody. Gabe's fired enough rounds at people who were firing back that when he departs from the established ciriculum he's got the onboard reality check necessary to validate as at least being worthy of consideration.

[tedbeemer]

As far as Suarez's past problems, I recommend 'google"-ing his name for some pretty wide coverage of that problem ... don't want to start a flame war here. I DO have two of his books and reread them often, so I can't fault his teachings.
I have also taken Advanced Weapons and Tactics basic 5-day classes. Best part of the pistol class was the Tueller Drill in which a moving target is pulled TOWARDS the shooter, simulating an attacker with a knife running 21 feet in 3.1 seconds ... the shooter has to recognize the threat, draw, AND HIT THE TARGET before it reaches him.
The 5 day shotgun class involved some Simunition sessions in a "fun house" ... THAT was an eye opener.
Don't know if Walt still does those things though. That's why it is so important to do your homework here on Calguns and on other sites before you invest in a gunfighting school. Courses evolve AND de-volve.

[Maddog5150]

Gunsite is awsome and recomend that to anyone. I heard all kinds of hokie stuff about Frontsite. Some of the stuff talked about already where you basically have to stave people off like a timeshare seminar. Jeff Cooper started Gunsite, that should me more than enough to get you in there
For those of you who dont have time to take a full week of shooting or the money it takes to attend these classes I suggest FTA. Firearms Training Associates has great instructors, very professional and is conveniently located in Norco for those who live in southern kalifornia. The head instructor is a Senior Gunsite Range master and also teaches at gunsite. They also dont prey on testosterone or show up in the mall ninja garb.
www.ftatv.com is the website and they offer everything from general handgun classes to full auto classes. They also do driving and sims classes.