Unloaded Open Carry

[inbox485]

I guess I'm missing something on this UOC business:

What's the point in carrying an UNLOADED firearm?

I recall that during the LA riots a small group of National Guardsman were relieved of their M16's by armed gangbangers. The NG guys wern't issued ammo so they were carrying unloaded. Obviously, the NG guys didn't resist because they were essentially unarmed.

And yes, I do understand that you can carry a loaded mag or speedloader in your pocket or a pouch. But your gun is still UNLOADED so you can't exactly bring your weapon to bear in a timely manner in an emergency situation. I learned in cop school that a person with a knife can charge you from 15' and stab you before you can clear leather with your LOADED sidearm. If you did a lot of practice drawing your gun & shooting accuratly you can improve your speed & get at least one accurate shot off before the stabber can actually slice & dice you. But he still will be close enough that you might still get injured.

An unloaded gun is actually a nifty little weapon (far more than a club) if you know what you're doing. I would certianly prefer one to the yawara's that were popular at one time (and IIRC are illegal in CA).

[StoneRoots]

I guess I'm missing something on this UOC business:

What's the point in carrying an UNLOADED firearm?

I recall that during the LA riots a small group of National Guardsman were relieved of their M16's by armed gangbangers. The NG guys wern't issued ammo so they were carrying unloaded. Obviously, the NG guys didn't resist because they were essentially unarmed.

And yes, I do understand that you can carry a loaded mag or speedloader in your pocket or a pouch. But your gun is still UNLOADED so you can't exactly bring your weapon to bear in a timely manner in an emergency situation. I learned in cop school that a person with a knife can charge you from 15' and stab you before you can clear leather with your LOADED sidearm. If you did a lot of practice drawing your gun & shooting accuratly you can improve your speed & get at least one accurate shot off before the stabber can actually slice & dice you. But he still will be close enough that you might still get injured.

I practice quite often in my backyard with open carry. With my low rentention serpa holsters and the slide cocked, I can have a round chambered in 2 seconds, firing accurate shots in 3. Would I rather be able to carry loaded? Sure. Would I rather not carry at all because it is a disadvantage to loaded carry? Definatly not.

[technique]

An interesting read that I agree with. I believe UOC will destroy the chance of Ca ever becoming a shall issue state (CCW)...I firmly believe a gun unloaded on your hip makes you a target in many ways and attracts much unnecessary attention that is not beneficial to helping improve and restore our Ca gun rights. I hope those who UOC do not hurt the future for the rest of us...

A very few people carrying guns for the first time feel an irresistible urge to let others see that “they’ve got the power.” First-time carriers and rookie cops, usually young in both cases, may fall into this trap. It is a practice to avoid for several reasons.

In most of this society, the only people the general public sees carrying guns in public are uniformed “protector figures,” such as police officers and security guards. When they see someone not identifiable as such, who is carrying a lethal weapon, they tend to panic. This makes no friends among the voting public for the gun owners’ rights movement—you do not make people into friends and sympathizers, by frightening them—and can lead to a panicky observer getting the wrong idea and reporting you to the police as a “man with a gun.” This can lead to all sorts of unpleasant confrontations.

Moreover, a harasser who has picked you as his victim and knows you carry a gun can create a situation where there are no other witnesses present, and then make the false claim that you threatened him with the weapon. This is a very serious felony called Aggravated Assault. It is his word against yours. The fact that you are indeed carrying the gun he describes you pointing at him can make his lie more believable than your truth, to the ears of judge and jury.

MCRGO, Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners, is directly responsible for getting reform concealed carry legislation enacted in their state, and has been in the forefront of fighting for the rights of armed citizens in that state. MCRGO’s Steve Dulan, in the organization’s Weekly E’News of 6/23/08, had some cogent points to make on the topic of private citizens carrying handguns visibly in public:

“Open carry of firearms, subject to MCL 750.234d, it is legal to carry a visible pistol in public. MCRGO has not adopted an official position on this subject,” wrote Dulan, who continued, “I agree with Ted Nugent and many others that it is a bad idea in almost every situation. Tactically, you are giving up the element of surprise should you face a deadly force situation. Furthermore, you run the risk of being called in to 9-1-1 as a ‘man with a gun.’ I have been on police ride-alongs when this call comes over the radio. It creates a very dangerous situation for all concerned. I do not carry openly. I have a CPL (Concealed Pistol License) and take care to choose a gun and holster that, along with appropriate clothing, allow me to keep my gun concealed unless/until I need it to save a life.”

As cogent and valid as Steve Dulan’s arguments are, it still makes sense to have legal open carry available as an emergency option. If the wind accidentally blows your coat open and reveals the gun, an open carry provision assures you have committed no crime. If someone who has not yet felt the need to get a concealed carry license suddenly begins getting death threats, open carry provides an emergency avenue of self-protection until the paperwork can be processed to acquire the license to carry the weapon discreetly out of sight.

quoted from here...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=229193

[pullnshoot25]

An interesting read that I agree with. I believe UOC will destroy the chance of Ca ever becoming a shall issue state (CCW)...I firmly believe a gun unloaded on your hip makes you a target in many ways and attracts much unnecessary attention that is not beneficial to helping improve and restore our Ca gun rights. I hope those who UOC do not hurt the future for the rest of us...




quoted from here...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=229193

Yes technique, we are all well aware of your relentless opines on this matter.

Also, what is it with people resurrecting necroposts?

[technique]

Yes technique, we are all well aware of your relentless opines on this matter.

Also, what is it with people resurrecting necroposts?

As we are aware of yours....as long as you are here, so am I.

No clue, lost of necroposts lately.

[pullnshoot25]

However, unlike you, I don't threadcrap with baseless opinions or unfounded facts. If and when something concrete happens that is OC related occurs, then you *MAY* have something.

[technique]

Pointing out the hazards of UOC...is not thread crapping.

My quote was about UOC

A very few people carrying guns for the first time feel an irresistible urge to let others see that “they’ve got the power.” First-time carriers and rookie cops, usually young in both cases, may fall into this trap. It is a practice to avoid for several reasons.

^This part reminded me of you as a matter of fact.^

[bombadillo]

I have changed my views due to many of the "Guru's" here at calguns based on political change and other more pressing issues. I'm just going to get a concealed permit because UOC is really kind of pointless otherwise. I can't say completely pointless and I understand the concepts behind the right to carry and what not, but its not something that will unify the body together and bring a change for the better IMO.

[pullnshoot25]

and can lead to a panicky observer getting the wrong idea and reporting you to the police as a “man with a gun.” This can lead to all sorts of unpleasant confrontations.

This one reminds me of you, technique.