Commentary on a bear gun

[pullnshoot25]

OK, so there is a guy that I know (CGN member) that is defending his choice of 5.56 out of an AR-15 as his bear protection gun while in Montana when he has access to my .44mag levergun AND revolver, complete with 240gr@1790fps and 300gr@(?) hot loads and even a .50 Beowulf upper and ammunition (all he had to do was ask)

Questions.

1) Is it extremely hard to learn to shoot a levergun over an AR?
2) What is easier to learn, a semi-auto or a pump/levergun?
3) Is 5.56 first choice for bear defense?
4) Is .44mag as preferred in a rifle as it is in a pistol?
5) Is .44mag considered "inadequate" for bear defense?
6) Is .50 Beowulf unreliable?

[JBird33]

OK, so there is a guy that I know (CGN member) that is defending his choice of 5.56 out of an AR-15 as his bear protection gun while in Montana when he has access to my .44mag levergun AND revolver, complete with 240gr@1790fps and 300gr@(?) hot loads and even a .50 Beowulf upper and ammunition (all he had to do was ask)

Questions.

1) Is it extremely hard to learn to shoot a levergun over an AR?
2) What is easier to learn, a semi-auto or a pump/levergun?
3) Is 5.56 first choice for bear defense?
4) Is .44mag as preferred in a rifle as it is in a pistol?
5) Is .44mag considered "inadequate" for bear defense?
6) Is .50 Beowulf unreliable?

1. No harder than any other gun. Definitely fewer things to learn than an AR, though neither are hard.
2. I would say equally easy to learn. Gotta learn how to work with malfunctions differently in each.
3. Hell no. Not nearly a heavy enough bullet to get through bear bone.
4. It is good in each one for bear, but a rifle is even better than a pistol!
5. Nope. I would say minimum for browns. I would still take a .44 handgun over a 5.56 rifle any day, though.
6. How is it unreliable? Unproven, maybe, due to being a niche caliber. But certainly not unreliable. Also a good choice IMO.

[762cavalier]

If he's gonna use 5.56 tell him to remove the front sight so it doesn't hurt as much when the bear shoves it up his behind.

[pullnshoot25]

If he's gonna use 5.56 tell him to remove the front sight so it doesn't hurt as much when the bear shoves it up his behind.

Thats what Grammaton76 told me to tell him. THAT IS FRIGGIN HILARIOUS!

[Sutcliffe]

.223 for dangerous game?

He won't get the kind of penetration needed to seriously damage are large bruin. The Beowolf might be an idea, but I think you are limited to lighter weight bullets of, maybe, doubtful design that may not penetrate as deep as most would like for the big critters.
Lever guns are simple, reliable, rugged, and easy to have at hand. A .44 magnum, with the right bullet, is perfectly acceptable against bears.

[yoteassasin]

He won't get the kind of penetration needed to seriously damage are large bruin. The Beowolf might be an idea, but I think you are limited to lighter weight bullets of, maybe, doubtful design that may not penetrate as deep as most would like for the big critters.

WHAT? ok now raise your hand if you have actual experience shooting a bear now raise your hand if you have ever been to remote Alaskan village with crazy Upick old women have an ar 5.56 behind their front door for bear defense. OK Now this is from MY ACTUAL EXPERIENCE working and living in alaska and having my share of run ins with big mr griz. I prefer a 45-70 or 12G yes a lever gun in 44 mag is acceptable as it a 44 hand gun but so is 30 round of 5.56 at the ready. the reasoning is that multiple (read many like >7) 5.56 round hitting the bear will stop it just as fast if not faster as a center mass shot with a bigger round because of the amount of energy released in to the body also the ar-15 is a much more friendly platform for a 120 lb 60yo Eskimo and remember the Only way to reliably stop a charging bear is to remove its face!

[yoteassasin]

1) Is it extremely hard to learn to shoot a levergun over an AR?
2) What is easier to learn, a semi-auto or a pump/levergun?
3) Is 5.56 first choice for bear defense?
4) Is .44mag as preferred in a rifle as it is in a pistol?
5) Is .44mag considered "inadequate" for bear defense?
6) Is .50 Beowulf unreliable?

1- no
2- go with whatever you are most comfortable with
3- not for me but, i know where it is
4- rifle hands down
5- depends on who you talk to. black bear, more than enough but on a grizz many will say minimum 454. I say hit where you aim and you will be ok
6- no clue but if you were telling me to take your 50 with me to Montana i would go with it

[m24armorer]

The US Geo survey used AR's they just did not work out. 12 gauge with slugs did. This was in AK a few years back.

[Rob454]

Questions.

1) Is it extremely hard to learn to shoot a levergun over an AR?
2) What is easier to learn, a semi-auto or a pump/levergun?
3) Is 5.56 first choice for bear defense?
4) Is .44mag as preferred in a rifle as it is in a pistol?
5) Is .44mag considered "inadequate" for bear defense?
6) Is .50 Beowulf unreliable?

1. No I think both guns are easy to learn.
2. neither really . I guess for a uninitiated the pump may be easier
3 NO. Not my first choice
4 No not really. i think most people prefer a regular rifle caliber. But having same ammo for your pistol and rifle makes sense
5. NO its good for bear defense
6 I have no experience with that caliber but is it like the 500 magnum? I have a buddy who has one and it shoots fine

[nick]

WHAT? ok now raise your hand if you have actual experience shooting a bear now raise your hand if you have ever been to remote Alaskan village with crazy Upick old women have an ar 5.56 behind their front door for bear defense. OK Now this is from MY ACTUAL EXPERIENCE working and living in alaska and having my share of run ins with big mr griz. I prefer a 45-70 or 12G yes a lever gun in 44 mag is acceptable as it a 44 hand gun but so is 30 round of 5.56 at the ready. the reasoning is that multiple (read many like >7) 5.56 round hitting the bear will stop it just as fast if not faster as a center mass shot with a bigger round because of the amount of energy released in to the body also the ar-15 is a much more friendly platform for a 120 lb 60yo Eskimo and remember the Only way to reliably stop a charging bear is to remove its face!

I thought, semiautos were a no-no in those temperatures. I don't have a firsthand experience with it though.

[Beelzy]

I recently read where guides even pack ARs with big mags. The reasoning is
when a bear charges, it is best to immobilize the bear with shots to the
nervous system. The AR can "chew" up a bear in short order.

Ask around.

[pullnshoot25]

I recently read where guides even pack ARs with big mags. The reasoning is
when a bear charges, it is best to immobilize the bear with shots to the
nervous system. The AR can "chew" up a bear in short order.

Ask around.

The question is, are they using 5.56 or something more substantial?

If I were packing an AR (don't even own one) I wouldn't be packing a 5.56. Something at least on the level of .44mag (around the .458 SOCOM area, give or take... I think) but I would far rather pack a slim levergun or shotgun.

.308 never is a bad option. I think I can smell another Saiga coming up. However, REALLY want a 7.62x54R Saiga, that would just be killer!

[Chatterbox]

Theoretically speaking, 44 mag bullet has the same energy as a .223, and overpenetration is not going to occur in bears. The number of bullets you can deposit on target and controllability for follow up shots is going to be better in a AR-15. However, in either scenario, I'd be concerned about the bear expiring in a few minutes from blood loss - after it had ripped your head off.

[pullnshoot25]

Theoretically speaking, 44 mag bullet has the same energy as a .223, and overpenetration is not going to occur in bears. The number of bullets you can deposit on target and controllability for follow up shots is going to be better in a AR-15. However, in either scenario, I'd be concerned about the bear expiring in a few minutes from blood loss - after it had ripped your head off.

The max load from a .223 is a bottom end load for a .44mag. Most of the time people use real hunting loads in a .44mag.

[yoteassasin]

I thought, semiautos were a no-no in those temperatures. I don't have a firsthand experience with it though.

bears are not such a big problem in the winter and with proper lube they(semi-autos) function fine