Help me craft a firearms sales policy.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Ok, we really have been pretty laid back about policies and terms of the sale. However, I do have some firearms in the back safe that have been there for years and no one has come back for them. I also don't want to keep running DROS for prohibited persons or DMV rejects for free.

So help me craft a good company policy. My idea is to keep my policy rather limiting to the customer and kind of a the disadvantage to the customer. Meaning, I can say no exchanges. However if you get home and notice a hairline crack in your stock, but you are back within an hour and show me, there is nothing stopping me from trying to take care of you. If you come back 10 days after taking possession and have a gun with a thousand round through it and claim there is something wrong, I revert back to the policy and you can send it back to the manufacturer.

The idea is I want to protect myself, but just use good old common sense and customer service skills to handle true problems. In the end despite my policies being strict, I would be a fool to hose a customer that is just going to spread the word about what a douche bag I am. However, there are some customers who just flat want to take advantage of me and I want to stop that.

So really there are two points in time that a customer comes in. To start DROS and to pick up 10 to 30 days later. Really most of the start rules don't apply at the pick up time. Read on and you will see what I mean.

Sales Order (DROS start) - On sales order receipt and posted on shop wall.

DROS fees are non-refundable. The PPT fee is non-refundable. Non-PPT DROS rejections are subject to a $50 paperwork processing/storage fee.

All firearms warranty claims must be handled through the firearms manufacturer. Firearms warranty shipments are not required to be shipped or returned through an FFL. No refunds or exchanges on firearms. Inspect all firearms for damages or defects before delivery.

The waiting period is ten 24 hour periods exactly by the minute.

All firearms must be picked up within thirty 24 hour periods from DROS start. DROSed firearms not picked up within thirty days are subject to a $25 storage fee and an additional $25 DROS fee. All merchandise cancellations are subject to a 15% cancellation fee.

Firearms and firearms transfers left unclaimed for more than 90 days become the property of Ten Percent Firearms.

Firearms Sales Receipt - On sales receipt you sign and take with you as proof of purchase

All firearms warranty claims must be handled through the firearms manufacturer. Firearms warranty shipments are not required to be shipped or returned through an FFL. No refunds or exchanges on firearms. Inspect all firearms for damages or defects before signing this receipt.

The waiting period is ten 24 hour periods exactly by the minute. Please confirm you are not violating the ten day wait statute.

By signing this receipt you are agreeing that this firearm was delivered in a California legal configuration and that the individual is responsible for knowing and complying with all local, state, and federal laws.

My signature affirms I have read and agree to this sales agreement.

I already have a lowers/rifles agreement for exotic stuff and I don't want to duplicate it. Regular gun customers don't need all of that bull crap. Let's keep it simple.

General In Store Merchandise - We print different receipts for guns vs. non-guns

We accept returns and exchanges on all unused & unopened merchandise (no returns or exchanges on firearms) within 15 days of purchase with a copy of your receipt. All refunds will be made back to your original form of payment.

So what am I forgetting? In that 15 day window I don't care if you bring something back and don't need to do a restocking fee. If I special order something for you, I will print the sales order receipt so if you change your mind, I have the 15% cancellation option there.

Let me know what I am forgetting or what I can strengthen. Thanks.

[jaymz]

Looks pretty good to me. The Sales Order states a $25 storage fee after 30 days, but it doesn't say for what.........is it per day, week month?

[tenpercentfirearms]

Looks pretty good to me. The Sales Order states a $25 storage fee after 30 days, but it doesn't say for what.........is it per day, week month?

Hmmm. Just $25. Basically it takes times and effort to run your DROS again because you didn't get here in time. Now, if you are spending $1K on an AR15, then I am not going to hit you on that $25 storage fee. If you are doing a transfer, you bet I am.

Let's change it to $25 reprossessing fee. That way if you re-DROS, I get an additional $25 for reprocessing, if you cancel, I get 15%, and if you never come back, I get your deposit.

[truthseeker]

I would add to this:

"Firearms and firearms transfers left unclaimed for more than 90 days become the property of Ten Percent Firearms."

This:
(Unless SPECIAL arrangements are made within the 90 day period. ALL SPECIAL arrangements will only be made by the discretion of the store owner.)



This will allow you to "help" person's which have some catastrophic circumstance occur during that period and will allow you to "charge" them extra fees as YOU deem appropriate.

[jaymz]

All firearms left after 90 days will be auctioned off with proceeds to benifit CGF!

[tenpercentfirearms]

I would add to this:

"Firearms and firearms transfers left unclaimed for more than 90 days become the property of Ten Percent Firearms."

This:
(Unless SPECIAL arrangements are made within the 90 day period. ALL SPECIAL arrangements will only be made by the discretion of the store owner.)



This will allow you to "help" person's which have some catastrophic circumstance occur during that period and will allow you to "charge" them extra fees as YOU deem appropriate.

I purposely crafted it that way so there is no wiggle room according to policy. You tell me you need extra time or you are overseas or something. No big deal. Again, I want the policies to be a little strict, but I can violate my own policies at any time. I just don't want people to think I can. When dealing with turds, I can be hard, when dealing with nice folk, I can be nice.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I agree with you that this is a sensible policy, and I shop at stores that have this policy. And furthermore, I regularly ship my firearms myself back to manufacturers or gunsmiths, so I know how to handle the shipping part.

BUT: This policy has always annoyed me a bit. Imagine a novice, pretty clueless gun buyer. They go into your store, and buy a gun from you. Maybe it's their first gun, and they are a bit scared by all aspects of firearms ownership. Say it costs them $400 to buy. Then it breaks, and stops working. With the help of the internet, or with a phone call to the manufacturer, or with your help at your counter, they diagnose the problem, and find that the gun has a manufacturing defect, and needs to go back to the manufacturer for warranty repair.

At this point, just when the buyer needs help, you slam the door on them with your policy, and tell them: "Buddy, you're on your own - figure out how to get the gun back to the manufacturer, and pay for the shipping yourself (or convince the manufacturer to cover the shipping cost)." And shipping a firearm isn't all that easy if you've never done it before: You need to figure out how to package it (do you mark it as a firearm or not?), you need to call FedEx or UPS ahead of time to figure our which of their offices will accept it (not all do), when you arrive at the FedEx/UPS office there is a large sign there saying that firearms are forbidden (which happens to not apply to packaged firearms that are being shipped), you need to figure our whether to ship it locked or unlocked, with our without mags, with or without ammo. With some manufacturers you also end up paying for the shipping cost, which is typically $60 for overnight FedEx, quite a hefty amount for a gun that only cost $400 to buy in the first place. Fortunately, some manufacturers (for example Ruger or Taurus) are really good about picking up the tab for shipping. Then a few weeks later, the gun comes back, while you aren't at home, and you get a little note on your door. Now you have to make another trek to the FedEx/UPS facility, to pick it up. Typically at an inconvenient time that requires taking an hour off from work. Ugh.

One more minor aspect: As a FFL, you can use the postal service to ship a handgun, bringing the shipping cost way down, while your customer has to use FedEx or UPS overnight. Side remark: I would love it if gunstores offered the service of handling the shipment of handguns for me: I'd willingly give them 20 bucks for that, given that I'll save about $40 on shipping.

I think that if you sell a gun, and it is defective through not fault of the customers, and needs to be shipped back to the manufacturer under warranty for repair, you should handle the whole transaction, from the point your customer puts it on the counter and says "it no workee", to the point when you call your customer back saying "it's fixed, ready for pickup, and as an apology for your troubles I'm throwing an extra magazine in for free". That would be classy.

Imagine this was a new car you bought: something breaks, you get it back to the dealer. What would be your reaction if the dealer said "Sorry, manufacturing defect, please contact Honda yourself, tow it down do LA where they handle warranty repairs, and try to get Honda to reimburse you for the cost of towing"? I bet you'd be fuming mad.

Like I said, the policy is to make my life easier. In the end, I can decide whatever I want. So if I want to help a newbie get their firearm fixed I can.

I don't think you can really compare the car industry to the firearms industry, they are not the same. I can't loan you a gun until yours gets fixed. I don't work for Remington so I can't do Remington's warranty work like a Honda dealer does Honda's warranty work. Cars are not easy to ship back and forth across the country, gun are. I could come up with more reasons why the two industries are not comparable.

In the end, it comes down to dollars and cents. Do I want to spend a ton of my time and money fixing a gun that you broke from misuse because you bring it back and claim there is a defect? No. So I make this policy. If you come back and you are obviously a newbie with a legit problem, I can take care of it.

Still, why should I have to pay for a manufacturer's defect? Here we have many people complaining on here about what a rip off CA dealers are and they want their guns so cheap. Then at the same time you want me to go the extra mile for you to get your gun fixed and at my cost. Sell you a cheap $400 gun and then you want me to offer $700 service?

I guess if I were going to go full service, I should ask for full service prices eh? Actually that is doable. I charge so much because if you ever have a problem, bring it back and we will get it fixed at our cost. Consider it insurance? $650 Glocks so you won't have any hassle if you have a problem?

Don't take me too seriously on this post. I am just being a devil's advocate. You always do what you can do to make a new customer or any customer happy so they will keep coming back to you. Just every situation is different. Some people are actually sleeze and will try to pull anything over on you. Some people genuinely need help. I want policies that deal with the sleeze, but leave me open to say, "You know what, let me just take care of it for you" and then I can do what I feel is right.

[hawk1]

All firearms must be picked up within thirty 24 hour periods from DROS start. DROSed firearms not picked up within thirty days are subject to a $25 storage fee and an additional $25 DROS fee. All merchandise cancellations are subject to a 15% cancellation fee.

Might want to be clear that the additional DROS and fee will also require another 10 day wait.

[sierratangofoxtrotunion]

I purposely crafted it that way so there is no wiggle room according to policy. You tell me you need extra time or you are overseas or something. No big deal. Again, I want the policies to be a little strict, but I can violate my own policies at any time. I just don't want people to think I can. When dealing with turds, I can be hard, when dealing with nice folk, I can be nice.

My advice on the ability of policies to have wiggle room: sometimes if you find yourself in small claims court or something, if the upset customer can show that you bent the rules for another guy, the judge can decide you need to bend the rules for this guy too. If you're going to do any rule-bending, don't make it known.

Like here maybe.

[Desert_Rat]

This reminds me. When will my Bazooka be repaired? I want it back in time for the Dove opener!

[randy]

You might think of charging a fee to handle shipping of a firearm. xx$$ to box and ship.

Or hand them a basic write up of how to ship a gun. First thing on the write up would be contact the manufacture and have them tell you how they want it.

[aplinker]

Looks good in terms of policies. Some of the language is a bit lacking. If you want technical edits I can do them, but I figured you were mainly looking for content suggestions.

Sounds like you're having some post-boom pains.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Might want to be clear that the additional DROS and fee will also require another 10 day wait.

Thank you! It will be done.

My advice on the ability of policies to have wiggle room: sometimes if you find yourself in small claims court or something, if the upset customer can show that you bent the rules for another guy, the judge can decide you need to bend the rules for this guy too. If you're going to do any rule-bending, don't make it known.

Like here maybe.

Nothing I do is going to go to small claims. The super vast majority of this policy is just in case and most of this only represents probably less than 1% of my business dealings with customers. I am just tired of not having a policy and I think it would be nice if the customer received some of this info in writting when they take it home so I have less confusion and better customer service.

You might think of charging a fee to handle shipping of a firearm. xx$$ to box and ship.

Or hand them a basic write up of how to ship a gun. First thing on the write up would be contact the manufacture and have them tell you how they want it.

This is an interesting idea. Right now I completely avoid it if at all possible. Maybe I should just embrace that people sometimes want me to ship firearms and offer it as a service. Make the price kind of high, but quit bellyaching and just do it for an easy profit. I just hate charging people money for something they could easily do themselves, but I have to remember, that is the bonus of being a gun dealer!

Looks good in terms of policies. Some of the language is a bit lacking. If you want technical edits I can do them, but I figured you were mainly looking for content suggestions.

Sounds like you're having some post-boom pains.

Go for it. I would appreciate it.

Thank you to everyone for the help. We can try and remember to do an advanced search for threads started by me and policy and use this for any other new gun dealers out there. Or when we are through we can move this over to the FFL forums.

[bruce_ventura]

When I have a choice, I go back to the stores that offer consistently good customer service, even if they charge a bit extra. Of the half-dozen gun stores in my area, I take my business to two of them because their customer service is great.

You might think of charging a fee to handle shipping of a firearm. xx$$ to box and ship.

Or hand them a basic write up of how to ship a gun. First thing on the write up would be contact the manufacture and have them tell you how they want it.

I had the same thought. I agree the return process is intimidating at first and often frustrating later. The newbie customer would feel a lot better knowing the option was there to fall back on. For a handgun, I would gladly pay a fee (as much as $30) for the packing and shipping service. It's always nice to get a phone call from the gun store saying "your package arrived!" Brings the good customers back in the store to look over the stock while waiting in line.

All merchandise cancellations are subject to a 15% cancellation fee.

I little vague here. Maybe specify "custom-order".

If you have employees working the counter, please train them to ask if the customer is familiar with the store policies. If not, you've likely got a new customer. Have the the employee walk the customer through all the policies, and watch the customer's body language to make sure they understand.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I little vague here. Maybe specify "custom-order".

It really is that simple. If you cancel on me, I get 15%.

However, what will really happen is this. If you actually purchase the merchadise other than firearms, I will take returns. If you make a special order or just plain put some money down on something and change your mind, it is going to cost you 15%.

Honestly, this is really only going to happen on canceled DROS or guns that are over 30 days and you decide its not worth it to try coming back.

I do not like to keep people's money when they haven't bought anything. However, if I am taking the time to run a DROS, I want to make something out of it if you flake.

Again in the end, I can be as flexible as I want on a case by case basis.