Going long in the dark...

[Tripplet918]

I shoot between close up to 300 yards quite consistently at night.

Easy enough, night vision and an IR laser zeroed at 50 yards, will land me anywhere in a 4 inch patch to 300.

Going further is harder. I have about a 35 inch drop at 400. Im unable to hit it with 1X, cant see it, getting behind a magnified scope with NVGs has been no bueno, and doing hold overs with a laser into the darkness hasnt gotten me hits.

Last night, I was able to get my hands on a rig that got me beyond 300.

Took a rig to 600+ yards in a valley with the hills to our left casting a shadow over our targets, and it didnt even break a sweat. Amazing tech, now I want one. Not only can the rifle see, it has a built in range finder, and ballistic computer. What a blast to shoot.

[Tripplet918]

I was also able to do tests between red dots and IR lasers on pistols.

The lasers were producing 1 inch groups at 12 yards, vs 4 inch on the red dot. Could be the shooter, but it was a lot easier not having to look down the slide with goggles on.



Notice my shadow. That the moon rising above the hills in front of us.

[RTE]

What product is this?
First post didn't come through.

[ar15barrels]

Just make sure you don't put an IR illuminator on a rifle that has a night vision optic in CA as that's illegal.

California Code, Penal Code - PEN ? 468
Current as of January 01, 2023 | Updated by FindLaw Staff

Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

[FNGGlock]

Sounds very cool! I'm still in the stone ages with night shooting, powerful light with scope or LPVO. It works till about 200yds, but very visible - though antelope never seem to get the message. Night vision, IR, Thermal optics always look very interesting, but seems to be $$$$

For pistols I found that green laser and light combos work the best for me. No need for goggles, but limited range and you can be visible (though I'm not an operator )

[AKSOG]

Nevermind

[DArBad]

Reading that law it looks like it makes infrared scopes illegal and not modern light amplification NV. I don't think an IR illuminator would work on those anyways.

Yeah, be sure to follow all letters of the " LAW " because it is the " LAW " and one misstep from the " LAW " you will be hit hard by the " LAW ".

Why? because you and I are ordinary citizens/serfs.

Just look around, the ILLEGALS, the thugs, the vandals, the criminal element of society are coddled and loved by the Democrats even though there are multiple " LAWS " being violated.

Sorry, can't control this rant. Hope ranting doesn't violate any " LAW ".

[bergmen]

You might need to wear sunglasses for this (110 grains of H110 under a custom machined aluminum bullet out of a 460 Weatherby Magnum going for max velocity):



Dan

[ar15barrels]

Reading that law it looks like it makes infrared scopes illegal and not modern light amplification NV. I don't think an IR illuminator would work on those anyways.

It's actually very clear.

through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

It says that if you project IR light and visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime, then you have a sniperscope.

Thermal is not covered under this law because it does not need any light projected.
The modern light amplifying NV all benefit greatly from IR illumination and IR illumination is used because its not visible to the human eye.

You can use modern light amplfying NV with visible light and it works great and would not fit the description of a sniperscope as long as you used an IR cut filter on your light to make sure you did not project any IR light along with your visual spectrum light.

[ar15barrels]

You might need to wear sunglasses for this (110 grains of H110 under a custom machined aluminum bullet out of a 460 Weatherby Magnum going for max velocity):



Dan

where is the chronograph?
what velocity did you get?

[bergmen]

where is the chronograph?
what velocity did you get?

This is not me, this was from another forum I used to frequent several years ago. Here is what I have:





Dan

[sigstroker]

That's a pistol powder. Sounds weird to use such a fast powder.

[bergmen]

That's a pistol powder. Sounds weird to use such a fast powder.

H110 is a slow powder, used for heavy magnum revolver loads. Peculiar that he used this, but that was his experiment.

Burning Rate Chart (Courtesy of Hodgdon Powder Co.)

(Fastest to Slowest)

1. R-1 Norma
2. N310, Vihtavuori
3. Bullseye, Alliant
4. N312, Vihtavuori
5. Solo 1000, Accurate
6. Clays, Hodgdon
7. Red Dot, Alliant
8. N318, Vihtavuori
9. Hi-Skor 700X, IMR
10. N320, Vihtavuori
11. Green Dot, Alliant
12. International (Hod)
13. No. 2, Accurate
14. N321, Vihtavuori
15. N324, Vihtavuori
16. HP-38, Hodgdon
17. W-231, Winchester
18. N325, Vihtavuori
19. N330, Vihtavuori
20. PB, IMR
21. N331, Vihtavuori
22. No. 5, Accurate
23. Unique, Alliant
24. WSL, Winchester
25. Power Pistol, Alliant
26. Universal, Hodgdon
27. SR-7625, IMR
28. W-473AA (Win)
29. Herco, Alliant
30. N340, Vihtavuori
31. WSF, Winchester
32. HS-6, Hodgdon
33. W-540, Winchester
34. 3N37, Vihtavuori
35. WAP, Winchester
36. Hi-Skor 800-X, IMR
37. N350, Vihtavuori
38. HS-7, Hodgdon
39. W-571, Winchester
40. No. 7, Accurate
41. Blue Dot, Alliant
42. No. 9, Accurate
43. 2400, Alliant
44. N110, Vihtavuori
45. R-123, Norma
46. H-110, Hodgdon
47. W-296, Winchester
48. SR-4759, IMR
49. N120, Vihtavuori
50. XMP-5744, Accurate
51. IMR-4227, IMR
52. N125, Vihtavuori
53. H-4227, Hodgdon
54. N130, Vihtavuori
55. AAC-1680, Accurate
56. W-680, Winchester
57. N132, Vihtavuori
58. N-200, Norma
59. N133, Vihtavuori
60. IMR-4198, IMR
61. H-4198, Hodgdon
62. XMR-2015, Accurate
63. Reloader 7, Alliant
64. N134, Vihtavuori
65. IMR-3031, IMR
66. Benchmark 1 (Hod)
67. N-201, Norma
68. H-322, Hodgdon
69. Benchmark 2 (Hod)
70. AAC-2230, Accurate
71. IMR-4895, IMR
72. H-4895, Hodgdon
73. H-335, Hodgdon
74. BL-C(2), Hodgdon
75. AAC-2460, Accurate
76. W-748, Winchester
77. Reloader 12, Alliant
78. N135, Vihtavuori
79. IMR-4064, IMR
80. Varget, Hodgdon
81. AAC-2520, Accurate
82. N-202, Norma
83. XMR-4064, Accurate
84. IMR-4320, IMR
85. N140, Vihtavuori
86. AAC-2700, Accurate
87. Reloader 15, Alliant
88. H-380, Hodgdon
89. N150, Vihtavuori
90. W-760, Winchester
91. H-414, Hodgdon
92. N160, Vihtavuori
93. IMR-4350, IMR
94. H-4350, Hodgdon
95. N-204, Norma
96. Reloader 19, Alliant
97. IMR-4831, IMR
98. XMR-3100, Accurate
99. H-450, Hodgdon
100. H-4831, Hodgdon
101. MRP, Norma
102. N165, Vihtavuori
103. Reloader 22, Alliant
104. IMR-7828, IMR
105. H-1000, Hodgdon
106. XMR-8700, Accurate
107. H-870, Hodgdon

(slowest burn rate)

Dan

[ar15barrels]

That's a pistol powder. Sounds weird to use such a fast powder.

It's actually one of the best choices in the 460 with an 86gr aluminum bullet.
Here is what Quickload has to say about it:

Cartridge          : .460 Weath. Mag.
Bullet             : .458,  86, Lehigh CQB HP 458-300
Useable Case Capaci: 125.977 grain H2O = 8.180 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.500 inch = 88.90 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 60000 psi, or 413 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 102 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 296                      91.5    114.1     7.40    4889    97.3    60000    9005   0.571  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Lil'Gun                     92.3    111.4     7.22    4860   100.0    60000    8129   0.569  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant 2400                        87.8     96.8     6.27    4829   100.0    60000    7867   0.555  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110                        92.4    115.1     7.46    4790    98.9    60000    8309   0.574  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744                       98.7    109.7     7.11    4785    93.0    60000    8500   0.555  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer                    86.0    102.0     6.61    4773   100.0    60000    7568   0.563  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BLUE DOT                    93.9     88.8     5.75    4748   100.0    60000    7124   0.549  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL                79.6     73.3     4.75    4746   100.0    60000    6905   0.537  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100                       88.7    106.4     6.89    4735    99.7    60000    7622   0.564  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9                       78.2     96.3     6.24    4732   100.0    60000    7209   0.555  ! Near Maximum !
Norma R123                          82.0     95.2     6.17    4730   100.0    60000    7095   0.579  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.7                       71.4     88.8     5.75    4724   100.0    60000    6937   0.553  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110                    102.0    100.4     6.51    4693   100.0    55158    7616   0.582  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105                     91.2     82.9     5.37    4650   100.0    60000    6371   0.556  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38                     89.0     84.2     5.46    4637   100.0    60000    6398   0.550  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680                      102.0    123.6     8.01    4616    88.1    57739    7984   0.577  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.5                       61.6     73.9     4.79    4582   100.0    60000    6154   0.544  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227                           102.0    108.4     7.02    4511    92.6    50860    7687   0.598
Hodgdon H4227                      102.0    108.4     7.02    4488    93.0    48369    7770   0.609

With a 16.25" barrel, Quickload is actually pretty close to what the chronograph said:

Cartridge          : .460 Weath. Mag.
Bullet             : .458,  86, Lehigh CQB HP 458-300
Useable Case Capaci: 123.895 grain H2O = 8.044 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.450 inch = 87.63 mm
Barrel Length      : 16.3 inch = 412.8 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon H110

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.909% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-09.1   82   100.00   3972    3013   40029   9336     91.2    0.611
-08.2   82   101.00   4012    3074   41220   9441     91.7    0.602
-07.3   83   102.00   4052    3135   42445   9543     92.3    0.594
-06.4   84   103.00   4092    3198   43705   9643     92.8    0.586
-05.5   85   104.00   4132    3260   45001   9741     93.3    0.578
-04.5   86   105.00   4172    3323   46335   9837     93.8    0.570
-03.6   87   106.00   4211    3387   47707   9930     94.3    0.562
-02.7   87   107.00   4251    3451   49118  10020     94.8    0.555
-01.8   88   108.00   4291    3516   50570  10107     95.2    0.547
-00.9   89   109.00   4330    3581   52064  10192     95.7    0.540
+00.0   90   110.00   4370    3646   53602  10274     96.1    0.533
+00.9   91   111.00   4409    3712   55185  10353     96.5    0.526  ! Near Maximum !
+01.8   91   112.00   4448    3779   56813  10429     96.8    0.519  ! Near Maximum !
+02.7   92   113.00   4487    3845   58490  10502     97.2    0.512  ! Near Maximum !
+03.6   93   114.00   4526    3913   60216  10572     97.5    0.505  ! Near Maximum !
+04.5   94   115.00   4565    3980   61993  10638     97.8    0.499  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ? 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     90   110.00   4598    4037   63376  10370     99.6    0.491  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     90   110.00   4078    3176   44044   9729     88.9    0.587