Now how to shoot fast ?

[karamba]

Thank everyone who helped me to learn how to shoot slow. I recently posted a question here how to overcome my problem (I was shooting about a foot to a foot and a half off at 10 yards). I got some quite helpful advises here and now comfortably shoot about 1" off the target center at the same 10 yards and the grouping is also about 1.5".
Now these are slow shots, about 1 seconds per shot. If I try to shoot fast the sights hop around and even though I try to pull the trigger when the sights return back on the target the result is very inconsistent. Usually two out of four land pretty close but the other two are about 4-6" off ( I shoot at 7 yards these ones).
So can you describe in slow motion steps how you do rapid fire, starting from the time you start aligning the sights with the target to the point you finish the second shot.

[IronsightsRifleman]

Increase your speed by 10%, then work out how to shoot with the same precision as before. When you master that, increase the speed another 10%. Repeat. In general, you're looking to develop a stable posture that returns to the same point of aim after each recoil.

[mrboma]

Learn form the GOAT



Regards,
Mike

[broadside]

If your finger can pull the trigger fast then it could be a few different things. Your grip, your stance, the "tune" of your gun for the ammo you are shooting, and what you deem to be an acceptable sight picture before pulling the trigger again.

[naz]

. If I try to shoot fast the sights hop around and even though I try to pull the trigger when the sights return back on the target the result is very inconsistent. .

You got to develop your grip and stance so the sight cycles straight up and down like a sewing machine needle. Then you just press the trigger again when the sights return to your point of aim after the second shot.

There?s not really a secret there. Just applying the fundamentals faster.

If the sights are ?hopping around? there?s an inefficiency in your grip (likely not enough support hand pressure) that you need to address. Might be easier to find a good coach for this.

You might also need some grip traction aids, like skateboard tape

[IVC]

The "mechanical" advice above is just part of the problem and solution, but there is more. Sure, you can improve your grip and luck into consistency, but the real question is about what you're doing, why, and how you're going to evaluate it.

The end-goal is that you *must* (eventually) learn to "call shots." That means that you have to see the sights at the moment the gun fires and make a quick mental snapshot of where the sights were. However, when you start to learn this skill, when you start to pay attention not so much on trigger pull and mechanics, but on the position of the sights as the gun fires, it becomes quite a bit more tricky and you'll have to change your routine around to get the result that you seek.

If you can *see* where the sights are as you fire, you'll be able to diagnose your own problems and work on them. If you cannot, you're blundering in the dark. Instead of initially concentrating on improving your groups, concentrate on seeing the sights. Don't even use a target - fire into a berm, fast(ish), and try to consciously recall where the sights were at each "blast." Once you can track your sights, you can now start working on your mechanical skills and evaluate how every change and improvement in your technique influences your shooting.

For further reading, look up "predictive vs. reactive shooting" and "shot calling." Also look up "Bill drill" and high-level competitors explaining how and why it helps in training (don't look videos of people shooting fast, it's useless).

[naz]

The "mechanical" advice above is just part of the problem and solution, but there is more. Sure, you can improve your grip and luck into consistency, but the real question is about what you're doing, why, and how you're going to evaluate it.

I interpreted OP question as wanting to be able to aim at a target, press trigger twice with .20 split in between shots and get 2 alpha consistently, and that will never happen until they improve their grip to the point that the sights are returning to zero consistently (aka cycling up and down like a sewing machine)

If you strapped a handgun very tightly into a vise and smashed the trigger with a stick as fast as you could, the shots would group tightly.

OP has to get their strength and grip technique to be at that level. They are already rudimentary shot calling by recognizing their sights are all over the place under recoil, so just my $0.02 next step is develop grip. If the sights are all over the place, grip is no good, if sights cycle straight up and down, grip is good

Btw, OP should take my advice with an appropriate grain of salt. My bill drill time from uspsa holster at 7yard is 2s so I?m at around 1s draw to first shot and 0.2 splits. I?m just sharing my own experience above on how I got there.

Good luck to OP

[acaligunner]

A long time ago, gangsters did a drive by on me ~ thank GOD they were shooting fast.

[tomk556]

Big rocks:

1) learn trigger reset
2) learn to grip gun
3) focus on making every shot count

[G-forceJunkie]

"shooting fast" is a measure of time. You need to shoot with a shot timer or else you have no tangible metric to compare to.
Get a shot timer, shoot pairs at the level of accuracy you desire, and increase the speed untill your accuracy suffers. Then dial it back and note the time. Now practice at that speed untill it is easy. Then speed it up a little and repeat the process.
As mentioned above, shooting fast is simply doing the fundimentals with all the extra wasted time and motion removed. Shooting fast or shooting slow, the impact will always be the same if the gun is pointed at the target when the bullet leaves the barrel. There are several key points to work on building speed:

Having the sights come off target the least amount (technique and strength)
Having the sights return on target in the lease amount of time (technique and strength)
Resetting and repressing the trigger to brake the shot (technique and timing)

If your front sight just dissapears after each shot, you need a better grip, more strength, or a less muzzle flipping gun. If your goal is to shoot fast, you will learn to watch and see your front sight rise up out of the notch, stop, and return back to the proper sight picture. With practice and timing you will be able to begin your trigger press as the front sight is on the way down and have the shot brake just as it becomes the proper sight picture.

[karamba]

Just Wow ! More useful information here than in my books ! Thank you all for the lessons !

[static2126]

There is no secret here. Execute fundamentals better faster.

Gun action and weight matters too.

For example fastest accurate g19 I have run from.concealment with all alpha was 2.10 (all alpha, warmed up). Fastest splits at 0.15 to 0.16 (usually 0.20.to 0.21 split) Personally the G19 trigger reach a s hump have horrible ergos for my hand. My standard G19 all alpha bill drill time is around 2.4 to 2.6.

Fastest with a p365xl.macro is 2.43 (all alpha warmed up from aiwb).my fastest split with a p365xl is 0.18 to .20. Usual splits are 0.22 to.0.24. My standard p365 all alpha time is around 2.75 to 3.00)

Shoot a shadow 2 faster than either of the above but that it cauae it is 42 oz lol

Does split time matter? Probably not for self defense (I carry a P365 daily)

[neouser]

This is how I grip an autoloading pistol.

I choke up high on the grip. Supporting hand is high and mirrors the finger placement on my hand gripping the pistol. (i.e. - The pointer finger of my support hand does not cover the middle finger of the hand holding the pistol, it is either under the trigger guard or on the front of it applying pressure. The bottom three fingers of my support hand cover the corresponding fingers of the hand gripping the pistol.) On the hand holding the pistol, I grip tightly with my bottom three fingers instead of my thumb and middle finger. My support hand applies more pressure than the hand gripping the pistol. My elbows point out instead of down and both my hands torque in, essentially squeezing into the grip. Thumb of my support hand presses tightly on to the side of the pistol.

When I do this right, I don't get a lot of movement and recover relatively quickly between shots. I learned most of these techniques from others and just kind of modified it over time to find what worked for me.

[IVC]

Also remember, shooting fast and being fast are two different things. You want to be fast.

[broadside]

Also remember, shooting fast and being fast are two different things. You want to be fast.

Be fast AND get hits. Misses just make you slow in competition or kill't in da streetz