Gifting a revolver to brother

[Flying Sig]

Gents - I have a 686-2 made in 1988 or 1989 that I was just thinking of giving to my brother ( he?s a CA resident, I?m not). From what I could find on the roster, it?s not approved in CA. Is that correct? Are these older revolvers grandfathered or something like that? I did notice that an intrafamily transfer is not allowed to a sibling, so I?m looking for info regarding this. Thank you!

Edit: Can I give it to my dad and then he can give it to my brother? Or is this frowned upon?

[Quiet]

Gents - I have a 686-2 made in 1988 or 1989 that I was just thinking of giving to my brother ( he's a CA resident, I'm not). From what I could find on the roster, it's not approved in CA. Is that correct? Are these older revolvers grandfathered or something like that? I did notice that an intrafamily transfer is not allowed to a sibling, so I'm looking for info regarding this. Thank you!

Because Federal laws requires firearms transferred between residents of different States to be done through a FFL and there being no intra-familial or gift exemption to the Federal laws, the transfer must be done through a CA FFL dealer. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5) and PC 27585(a)]
Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates to Federal felonies for everyone involved and additional CA misdemeanor/felony for the CA resident. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D) and PC 27590(a),(c)(7)]

Your S&W Model 686-2 is a CA legal off-Roster handgun.

Which means it can only be legally transferred via an exemption.

Because your relationship does not meet the CA legal definition of an "immediate family member" [PC 16720], the intra-familial gift exemption does not apply.

Therefore...

In order for a CA FFL dealer to be able to legally transfer an off-Roster revolver to your CA brother, he needs to be an eligible LEO or the revolver needs to be modified to meet the single-action revolver exemption before it is delivered to the CA FFL dealer.

If your S&W Model 686-2 has a barrel length of 3" or greater, then it can be modified to operate as a single-action only revolver (the double action parts are removed from the revolver) before you deliver it to the CA FFL dealer that will be conducting the transfer to your CA brother.

Once it is configured as a single-action revolver, the CA FFL dealer can legally transfer it to your CA brother via the single-action revolver exemption (SAE).

Edit: Can I give it to my dad and then he can give it to my brother? Or is this frowned upon?

Technically, doing this violates multiple Federal and CA laws. [18 USC 922(a)(6) and PC 27515 and 27520]
^Everyone involved would be committing Federal felonies and CA misdemeanors.

[Flying Sig]

Because Federal laws requires firearms transferred between residents of different States to be done through a FFL and there being no intra-familial or gift exemption to the Federal laws, the transfer must be done through a CA FFL dealer. [18 USC 922(a)(3),(5) and PC 27585(a)]
Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer equates to Federal felonies for everyone involved and additional CA misdemeanor/felony for the CA resident. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D) and PC 27590(a),(c)(7)]

Your S&W Model 686-2 is a CA legal off-Roster handgun.

Which means it can only be legally transferred via an exemption.

Because your relationship does not meet the CA legal definition of an "immediate family member" [PC 16720], the intra-familial gift exemption does not apply.

Therefore...

In order for a CA FFL dealer to be able to legally transfer an off-Roster revolver to your CA brother, he needs to be an eligible LEO or the revolver needs to be modified to meet the single-action revolver exemption before it is delivered to the CA FFL dealer.

If your S&W Model 686-2 has a barrel length of 3" or greater, then it can be modified to operate as a single-action only revolver (the double action parts are removed from the revolver) before you deliver it to the CA FFL dealer that will be conducting the transfer to your CA brother.

Once it is configured as a single-action revolver, the CA FFL dealer can legally transfer it to your CA brother via the single-action revolver exemption (SAE).



Technically, doing this violates multiple Federal and CA laws. [18 USC 922(a)(6) and PC 27515 and 27520]
^Everyone involved would be committing Federal felonies and CA misdemeanors.

Wow, thank you for a detailed explanation. It sounds like the conversion to single action is the only option. Again, thank you for your response.

[Quiet]

Wow, thank you for a detailed explanation. It sounds like the conversion to single action is the only option. Again, thank you for your response.

The sticky in the Handgun forum, titled " How To Import Off Roster S&W to California!! Instructions", may help with your venture into the single-action revolver exemption.

[Librarian]

Edit: Can I give it to my dad and then he can give it to my brother? Or is this frowned upon?

This structured transfer is illegal. It's PC 27515, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27515.

No person, corporation, or dealer shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to anyone whom the person, corporation, or dealer knows or has cause to believe is not the actual purchaser or transferee of the firearm, or to anyone who is not the one actually being loaned the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:

(a) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently sold, loaned, or transferred to avoid the provisions of Section 27540 or 27545.

(b) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently sold, loaned, or transferred to avoid the requirements of any exemption to the provisions of Section 27540 or 27545.

That is, an intrafamilial transfer allowed to skip the FFL (PC 27545), child to parent, would be illegal if the child or parent knew a subsequent transfer would occur to someone not in the that specific direct child-parent line.

Could be charged as a felony.

[Flying Sig]

This structured transfer is illegal. It's PC 27515, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27515.
That is, an intrafamilial transfer allowed to skip the FFL (PC 27545), child to parent, would be illegal if the child or parent knew a subsequent transfer would occur to someone not in the that specific direct child-parent line.

Could be charged as a felony.

Thank you for the info

[BigMac90660]

Listen to Quiet, and Librarian!

[Flying Sig]

Listen to Quiet, and Librarian!

That?s the plan. There is no way I would chance a criminal charge, over a gift of all things!! My brother is just gonna have to go without until he moves out of CA

[TrailerparkTrash]

Not talking about any type of straw purchase here, but aren?t ca residents allowed to purchase USED off roster handguns from private parties located anywhere and through an FFL?

[Zenderfall]

but aren?t ca residents allowed to purchase USED off roster handguns from private parties located anywhere and through an FFL?

Nope, if the FFL is outside CA, The gun has to be on-roster (with exemptions, like LEO, SA revolver, single shot or Olympic exemptions list) to be sent to a CA FFL and then transferred to you. Used or new doesn't change anything.

I'm sure that misunderstanding has caused a lot of outside-CA FFL's to stop sending guns to CA, many probably couldn't get transferred and had to be sent BACK to the FFL and money got burned (shipping fees, wasted time) in the process.

Now, if the used gun is IN a CA FFL, and offered as a used gun or consignment, the owner is a Californian, and it's basically going to be PPT. That's why you see consignment and used guns in Turner's display cases. I bought a gun this way, and never saw the original owner-the owner basically had copies made of DL and filled out their info beforehand.

[Quiet]

Not talking about any type of straw purchase here, but aren't ca residents allowed to purchase USED off roster handguns from private parties located anywhere and through an FFL?

Roster status applies to any new or used handgun in a CA FFL dealer's inventory.

PPT of handguns are exempt from needing to be on-Roster, due to the handgun not coming from a CA FFL dealer's inventory.

In order to be considered a PPT, all of the following is required:
1. The transferor is a CA resident.
2. The transferee is a CA resident.
3. Both transferor and transferee meet at the same CA FFL dealer, who conducts (4473/DROS/10 day wait) the transfer.

If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then it is not a PPT and considered a type of dealer transfer, because the firearm must first be entered into the dealer's inventory due to it being delivered by a non-resident of CA.

If the firearm is shipped, then it is not a PPT and considered a type of dealer transfer, because the firearm must first be entered into the dealer's inventory due to it being shipped to the dealer.

Handguns being sold via consignment are not considered dealer transfers and are considered a type of PPT, because the firearm is not considered to be part of the dealer's inventory. The firearm is being sold on behalf of the CA resident owner of the firearm, who fills out their required paperwork before the firearm is placed on consignment sale.