Seeing a therapist.

[ivanimal]

It took about 6 months for me to recover from my Dad's passing.
It was several years before I could think about him and an old fun moment.
Mrs. Ojisan's passing hit me hard for a solid year, then slowly improved.
It was five years before I had a thought about her that made me smile.

I considered counseling but just like you, I considered it too risky being a firearms owner and working in the industry.
I did not want my property taken, a possible ban on ownership and my job ended.

It was tough but sometimes only time can ease the wounds.
Don't be in a hurry.

You need a CG group hug.

Boy you sound exactly like what I went through. I finally gave in and sought help. Things were different in 1989 though. God bless you and your journey.

It goes both ways - neither one of you knows whether "medical professionals" are or are not biased enough to misuse their position. Their trade association, the AMA, is rabidly anti-gun and is pushing gun control through "public health" angle, which is dishonest and underhanded to begin with. So it's not far fetched to assume that there are enough, or at least non-zero, "doctors" who would push this agenda.

There is some truth to what you are saying, but painting every medical professional with the same brush, sounds like what libs say about gun owners, all bad all the time!

I hope this is not too personal a question. When I was quitting drinking 18 years ago I went to a psychiatrist and a psychologist. They perform different functions. Which are you looking for? I know a psychologist I would recommend (if he is still practicing as it has been 18 years) on the peninsula if needed.

I have been perfect at only one thing in the last 18 years, not drinking. I wish you well on your efforts to be the best human being you can be OP.

Please PM me his-or her info. Congrats on 18 years. I’m trying to be the person that my Dog thinks I am.

That's exactly where the "red flag laws" kick in - they provide reporting channels for (ever expanding) group of people to make unsubstantiated claims about gun owners. And when I say "unsubstantiated" I mean it. The burden of proof is minimal and the deck is stacked against the gun owner, which is not a bug, it's a feature. Similar to how TRO-s can be abused by vindictive spouses because there is minimal legal review and requirement.

This is the dialog we need out in the open, it?s how we can begin to fight to regain our rights. It’s a great man that plants trees whos shade he won’t live to enjoy. We need to get involved wherever our rights are stolen.

Unless there are DTO (Danger to Others), DTS (Danger to Self) then there should be no reason for a therapist to be concerned. Yes, we are an anomaly but there are therapists who are pro 2A and don't believe inanimate objects (guns) are dangerous outside of human control. You can private message me with other questions.

I.’ll make a list!

[Djantlive]

What about HIPPA laws?

My understanding is that your medical information is protected (with certain exceptions). Your health history is private and cannot be released without a request in writing by law enforcement that there is a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.

Likewise, therapists are bound by privacy laws, unless again there is suspicion of criminal activity, or again danger to self/others.
Therapist can risk their license if they make capricious reports.

I highly doubt that extremely common life circumstance, transitory mental health issues would come under the need for any scrutiny.

My 2c. Any Attorneys out there correct my statement as needed.

This! My therapist confirmed everything is private unless I am hurting someone or myself. My record can only be released with my consent.

[RickD427]

There's been a lot of bogus information circulated in this thread regarding the ability of private therapists to impact a person's firearms rights, and also to the impact of HIPAA on the ability of law enforcement to access medical records.

Let's set the fact straight (and with appropriate references to the statutes and regulations - something that has been notably absent from this thread);

1) Your private therapist can make you a person prohibited from possessing firearms. Please refer to WIC section 8100(b)(1) to see the details of how it is done.

2) Your private therapist cannot make you a prohibited person based on their subjective whim or fancy. The threshold that they must meet is to show that you made "a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims." Once the therapist reports that you have met this threshold, you become a prohibited person for a period of five years. Please refer to WIC section 8100(b)(1).

3) There isn't much protection offered to folks who are erroneously reported under section 8100(b)(1). WIC section 8108 provides the therapist making a report with immunity from civil liability from the consequences of making the report.

4) The HIPAA contains a specific provision allowing law enforcement to access medical records in accordance with state statutes, and without requiring consent from the subject of the record. It also allows medical providers to make required reports to law enforcement with needing consent of the patient. Please refer to 45CFR164.512.

[harbormaster]

Had quite a disagreement with my Kaiser dr about firearms. She asked if I had any and I didn't answer. She asked again and I didn't answer intentionally and she said "yes" to the answer on the form. I took exception to that and said that I did not say "yes" to the question so please do not record that answer. Now I have a different Kaiser dr.

To the OP you are wise to ask here about a counselor. Hopefully someone here can direct you to the right one. I agree with your concerns. My significant other not married LCSW works for the Veterans Admin. She is very pro 2a, Trump, and has a really hard time in that working environment (bay area, CA). She has expressed great concern to me for veterans speaking of gun ownership to VA counselors and medical pros. She has been reprimanded verbally by a supervisor for trying to tell co workers that their opinions on gun ownership should not be part of their discussion with veterans.

So - continue to ask here. And those here offering to help if you know of a Pro 2A counselor help the OP out. I wish I knew one but I do not beyond my SO who's not doing private counseling.

[hambam105]

Thank You, RickD427.

[Packy14]

Back in 1989. When my father passed, I needed help dealing with the constant pain and absolute denial that my father had been taken from me so young. I was so impressed with the levels of understanding and care in dealing with my issues. It took some time but I was able to resolve my daily agony and move on with the facts and reality. It sure was a godsend.

Fast forward to last year. My cousin Victor who was the oldest of our generation, passed away from a brain tumor and other cancers brought upon by a life saving kidney transplant. I am the youngest of my generation and our unlikely bond was created by our mutual love for all things 2A. To say I am upset by his death would be an understatement. It?s so unfair. I am a man of faith and have done my share of praying and sought spiritual support, still I am having trouble dealing with this.

When I spoke to my spiritual advisor he warned me of seeking help and getting a liberal asshat that might affect my 2A rights. Yikes! He said he would also like to get some help but his bipolar diagnosis might get him flagged. Sheesh?

I am wondering if I can get some advice here from people that have had similar experiences. Or know of 2A friendly therapist in the Bay Area. I would like to find an avenue for my advisor as well. We are currently becoming friends and I would love to offer him some help since he so clearly without any reciprocal help has given me such genuine love and advice.

I am currently 23 years sober and a brain surgery survivor ( sure hits home that Victors cause of death was a brain tumor ) so no self medicating to speak of.

Yes my sponsor is aware of everything.

Ivan

Talk to your pastor or small group if you are a Christian. Don?t trust health professionals (I am one, I?m the 0.1%).

[Pranqster]

My condolences for your losses. There's nothing worse than that kind of loss, and it takes courage to talk about it and to ask for help. No good comes from suffering in silence. Hang in there.

Therein lies the rub - an anti-gun therapist is free to use personal animus towards people with guns to make this "judgment call." Especially since "erring on the side of caution" is a good excuse and provides plausible deniability to stick it to the gun owners.

Thats not at all how it works. I work in the Medical/Mental Health field (14years) and I can tell you with certainty that there are specific criteria required to deem a person danger to self or others, or to put them on a psych hold (5150 hold) Clinicians dont get to simply assume youre a danger to somebody just because youre depressed and happen to own guns. You must voice actual threats or thoughts of doing harm.

There only about 10,000 Psy. docs in the Bay Area that most certainly have the authority to...and would love
to have the opportunity to....pull your 2A rights away based on half of what you posted.

Unsubstantiated Hogwash.

I know you're hurting. But a public forum like this is not not not the platform to broadcast the situation.

More Hogwash. This is a community, with much to offer in terms of support and understanding.

[k1dude]

I know a pro 2A therapist, but in the Sacramento region.

[IVC]

Thats not at all how it works. I work in the Medical/Mental Health field (14years) and I can tell you with certainty that there are specific criteria required to deem a person danger to self or others, or to put them on a psych hold (5150 hold) Clinicians dont get to simply assume youre a danger to somebody just because youre depressed and happen to own guns. You must voice actual threats or thoughts of doing harm.

There are several different statutes that come to play here. There is involuntary detention (WIC 5150, 5250, etc.), there is mental health firearm-related reporting (WIC 8100-8108), but there are also the "red flag laws" (not directly applicable here, but worth mentioning) in Penal Code 18170.

Of the three, the "red flag laws" are the worst, because they allow all sorts of people to try to get a "Gun Violence Restraining Order" against a person. Even if unsuccessful, they are still harassment. Next on the bad list are the "mental health reporting," which seem to have a stronger requirement for reporting, but then completely erase it by shielding the practitioner from civil liability. WIC 5150/5250 control involuntary detention and are not directly connected to firearms. WIC 8100(a) defines that involuntarily detained cannot own firearms. But there is also 8100(b) which adds to the firearm prohibition. It states:

...he or she communicates to a licensed psychotherapist, as defined in subdivisions (a) to (e), inclusive, of Section 1010 of the Evidence Code, a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims.

But at the end of Chapter 3 (Sections 8100-8108, Firearms), in 8108 it also states:

Mental hospitals, health facilities, or other institutions, or treating health professionals or psychotherapists who provide reports subject to this chapter shall be civilly immune for making any report required or authorized by this chapter.

So, while mental health professional generally cannot intervene under PC 18170 (GVRO), they can report under WIC 8100(b) without any consequences for establishing their own threshold for what it means to "communicate a serious threat." An anti-gun therapist can ask any number of generic questions, put a spin, and not be responsible.

So, it indeed comes down to how much they are willing to twist it and how much they hate guns. And we know they do, at least enough of them do to have their trade organization, the AMA, adopt a policy calling "gun violence" (an anti term) a "public health crisis."

The trust in objectiveness, application of science and Hippocratic oath of health professionals is as gone as the trust in objectiveness of the media. After what we saw with Covid, the lies about masks and vaccines, the ever-changing stories to match the political narrative, it's hard to imagine that a rabidly anti-gun practitioner with a get-out-of-jail-free card in WIC 8108 would be restrained with some internal integrity or ethics. How many came out to tell the truth about how effective masks were, or how effective the "vaccines" were?

Just my 2c...

[Rickybillegas]

Had quite a disagreement with my Kaiser dr about firearms. She asked if I had any and I didn't answer. She asked again and I didn't answer intentionally and she said "yes" to the answer on the form. I took exception to that and said that I did not say "yes" to the question so please do not record that answer. Now I have a different Kaiser dr.

To the OP you are wise to ask here about a counselor. Hopefully someone here can direct you to the right one. I agree with your concerns. My significant other not married LCSW works for the Veterans Admin. She is very pro 2a, Trump, and has a really hard time in that working environment (bay area, CA). She has expressed great concern to me for veterans speaking of gun ownership to VA counselors and medical pros. She has been reprimanded verbally by a supervisor for trying to tell co workers that their opinions on gun ownership should not be part of their discussion with veterans.

So - continue to ask here. And those here offering to help if you know of a Pro 2A counselor help the OP out. I wish I knew one but I do not beyond my SO who's not doing private counseling.

I was with Kaiser for decades, I was even a Kaiser baby.
Kaiser has gotten seriously left wing/woke.
It's sad because they used to be a great health care provider, but they have gone way downhill, not just in the leftist sense, but health care wise also.

[NorCalBusa]

I might be wrong (I am sure someone will correct me) but I don't think that they can "flag" you for anything, based on what you describe.

To be clear I am not connected with the therapy industry but I know my way around it a LITTLE bit due to having had to organize it for a loved one.

1) It does not sound like anything you are going through would flag you for anything.

2) I don't think in general there is a database of "therapist flagged" people being accessed by DOJ. AFAIK either the therapist judges you to be at risk of causing harm to yourself or someone else, in which case they are required by law to alert authorities within 24 hours (or something)... or they don't. There is not a "we're not sure but add him to the "just in case this guy wants to buy a gun at some point" roster"

3) Why would your gun ownership come into it AT ALL for you OR your advisor? There is no need to even mention that, or tell the truth about it of asked. Just pretend you are a non gun owner.

4) The applicable state law wording would appear to be "Is disqualified because of a history of severely impairing mental illness or chronic alcoholism, including individuals found by a court to be a danger to self or others as a result of mental illness, found mentally incompetent to stand trial, found not guilty by reason of insanity, and those adjudicated to be a "mentally disordered sex offender"."

None of this would apply to someone dealing with the death of loved ones, unless you are expressing suicidal / homicidal ideation. I also seriously doubt that the advisor's Bipolar disorder would NECESSARILY slot in there somewhere (is his case SEVERELY IMPAIRING?) , again, unless they are expressing suicidal / homicidal ideation.

Again, I may be wrong on a lot of that, not sure.

FWIW, IMHO, if you ARE expressing suicidal / homicidal ideation, then yeah, you should probably not own have immediate access to guns. I have a relative that is Bipolar; that honestly gives me pause. No way that relative should be near guns. However, he's got a LOT of stuff going on and I am in no way qualified to know where the Bipolar ends and the multitude of other mental issues begin That's just me though, I know a lot of folks probably would strongly disagree.

TL/DR: I sincerely doubt your gun ownership should factor in to who you get therapy from. Not so sure for your advisor however.

I'm trying to figure out why you posted- when everything you said has "I may be wrong" attached. Seriously, say you don't like it or needs to be changed- let people who KNOW (and not via their neighbors nephew kinda thing) answer. Thanks.

[naz]

There's been a lot of bogus information circulated in this thread regarding the ability of private therapists to impact a person's firearms rights, and also to the impact of HIPAA on the ability of law enforcement to access medical records.

Let's set the fact straight (and with appropriate references to the statutes and regulations - something that has been notably absent from this thread);

1) Your private therapist can make you a person prohibited from possessing firearms. Please refer to WIC section 8100(b)(1) to see the details of how it is done.

2) Your private therapist cannot make you a prohibited person based on their subjective whim or fancy. The threshold that they must meet is to show that you made "a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims." Once the therapist reports that you have met this threshold, you become a prohibited person for a period of five years. Please refer to WIC section 8100(b)(1).

3) There isn't much protection offered to folks who are erroneously reported under section 8100(b)(1). WIC section 8108 provides the therapist making a report with immunity from civil liability from the consequences of making the report.

4) The HIPAA contains a specific provision allowing law enforcement to access medical records in accordance with state statutes, and without requiring consent from the subject of the record. It also allows medical providers to make required reports to law enforcement with needing consent of the patient. Please refer to 45CFR164.512.

your post supports a lot of people?s fears.

What does "a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims." even mean?

What if someone says ?man I wish my ex got what?s coming to him/her? that could be a serious threat against identified person? so ban? prohibited person from off the cuff common said in anger during therapy

[Imageview]

I have a diagnosed mental illness (OCD in my case, I'm not a threat unless you are bacteria on my hands) and am 13 years sober. My therapist (when I had one) encouraged me to go shooting as a healthy activity. He was a left wing liberal hippy.

I'm not saying your concerns are unfounded, pick your doctor wisely. Some doctors don't like shooting. Your first appointment should be a test run. But it's less about who they vote for, and more about how well they are able to support your needs (including for you 2a activities).

In order to be red flagged you need to have a restraining order, be judged a threat to yourself or others, or be found to be mentally incompetent by a court of law (5150 or more severe).

The last isn't a small thing. My daughter has severe bipolar disorder. Not the she's kind of moody sometimes bipolar disorder, but the "thinks she's a government assassin" kind of bipolar disorder. She's been 5250'd which is a lifetime revocation. We are sad about this, but it's probably reasonable. She's on medication now and it is well controlled.

My cousin was also 5150'd with bipolar disorder with psychotic episodes. That just means he sees and thinks things that are not real, similar to my daughter. His rights have been restored. He also has at least 2 misdemeanor arrests involving alcohol that I know of, so that wasn't a blocker either.

It turns out, from my extensive personal experience on this topic, it's actually pretty hard to lose your rights. It can't just be something minor, it actually needs to hold up in front of a judge. It's gotta be something real (he was arrested in front of his estranged wife's house with a firearm in the car while impaired for instance will get you a temporary hold for sure, but probably not a permanent hold). Again not saying it's not an issue, but it takes a lot more than folks on this forum seem to think.

[VonRyan209]

Honestly I just respond with "no" if they ask about firearms in the home. I just get heavily depressed because we humans (and all life) break down and die and we who are left have to cope in this world that consumes itself. And when it comes to me and death, it is just difficult to fully cope.

I'm not there to get lectured on the dangers of firearms (I already know them, anyone with a minimum amount of range time does), or letting random people know I own them so they can use that information against me. I'm there to learn new information on what I'm dealing with, and possible ways to improve my quality of life that were not provided in the government mandated public school system (we teach Sex-ed, but disregard mental education).

I'm not in the Bay Area, but the same concept applies. Maybe some folks would say to be honest about owning firearms, but until the day comes the doctors ask me if I vote or not, they don't need to know. They only need to know what issues I'm dealing with.

Sadly mental health takes an absurdly long time to get going. Between waiting months to speak with a psychiatrist, to weekly classes that range from $20 or more, or prescribed medication that takes weeks before you find out it helps, does nothing, or makes something worse off. The sooner you start to seek help the better I feel, as the longer you put it off the longer it takes to start all the while you're dealing with your current issues.

[RickD427]

your post supports a lot of people?s fears.

What does "a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims." even mean?

What if someone says ?man I wish my ex got what?s coming to him/her? that could be a serious threat against identified person? so ban? prohibited person from off the cuff common said in anger during therapy

As the law currently stands, it's the prerogative of the therapist to determine what the words "a serious threat of physical violence against a reasonably identifiable victim or victims" means. If, in the therapist's view, that standard is met, then the report is made, and the legal disability results. There is no mechanism by which the therapist has to submit their evaluation for review.

The patient, having become a prohibited person, may petition a court for relief of the disability (refer to WIC 8100(b)(3), but that doesn't prevent the disability from being first imposed.

As to your exemplar statement, IMHO, it does not meet the standard of WIC 8100(b)(1) because it does not make a specific threat. It only states a wish that something (presumably, but not expressly, being bad) fall upon the ex. On the other hand, if the patient said, "I'm gonna make sure that my ex gets what's coming to them", we're getting closer to meeting the standard. But even that statement is unclear as to exactly what is "coming to them." If the thing to be "coming to the ex" is a beating, then the standard is met. If the thing to be "coming to the ex" is a pair of concert tickets, then it is not.