CA laws on rimfire vs centerfire

[Librarian]

Now we are talking! No need for cooldown period for rimfire?! Makes little sense, but OK, we are in California and the weather is good here!

That does not match what you quoted.

When buying a handgun from a dealer, one per 30 days, rimfire or centerfire.

When buying from another non-FFL CA resident, using a CA FFL because the law requires it (that's a PPT), NO 1 in 30 time limit - except if you do that transfer at an FFL inside the city of LA.

Rimfire gets special treatment 2 places - they're not included in the definition of 'assault weapon' as such. One could build a .22 rimfire upper on a banned-by-name lower, for example, and it would be Bad.

.22 caliber guns with attached tube magazines are not included in the 'large-capacity magazine' definition. "Rimfire" is implied, but if there are .22 centerfire tube fed guns, those would also be exempt.

[mrahkus]

CA laws on rimfire vs centerfire

That does not match what you quoted.

When buying a handgun from a dealer, one per 30 days, rimfire or centerfire.

When buying from another non-FFL CA resident, using a CA FFL because the law requires it (that's a PPT), NO 1 in 30 time limit - except if you do that transfer at an FFL inside the city of LA.

Rimfire gets special treatment 2 places - they're not included in the definition of 'assault weapon' as such. One could build a .22 rimfire upper on a banned-by-name lower, for example, and it would be Bad.

.22 caliber guns with attached tube magazines are not included in the 'large-capacity magazine' definition. "Rimfire" is implied, but if there are .22 centerfire tube fed guns, those would also be exempt.

I have corrected myself before your comment quoted above [emoji854]

Thank you for your reply!


My location: San Francisco Bay Area

[The Hamsterball]

That does not match what you quoted.

When buying a handgun from a dealer, one per 30 days, rimfire or centerfire.

When buying from another non-FFL CA resident, using a CA FFL because the law requires it (that's a PPT), NO 1 in 30 time limit - except if you do that transfer at an FFL inside the city of LA.

Rimfire gets special treatment 2 places - they're not included in the definition of 'assault weapon' as such. One could build a .22 rimfire upper on a banned-by-name lower, for example, and it would be Bad.

.22 caliber guns with attached tube magazines are not included in the 'large-capacity magazine' definition. "Rimfire" is implied, but if there are .22 centerfire tube fed guns, those would also be exempt.

I don't know much about built rimfire semi-automatic rifles.
I was considering using a polymer lower I took off a factory 5.56 rifle that was crud.
It would have worked with a 22 LR rimfire upper.
No restrictions on removable magazine.
M-LOK all the way around. Whatever you wanna accessorize it with you can.
Problem is even rimfire uppers are expensive, so I didn't think it was worth it.

I don't know about magazine round limit. When I bought my M&P 15-22 technically nothing greater than 10+1 is allowed.

I don't even run conversion kit on my 5.56 rifle. Not interested. It would just dirty my AR up.

Rimfires are great for practice however. I do have one GSG 1911 922 22LR pistol I keep around for occasional range practice.
They're great because they offer no recoil too.
Ammo is CHEAP!

Problem is with rimfire they get dirty faster, and jam and have issues with prolonged use faster when you go practice with them.
You will spend an equal amount on bore cleaner as you would on 9MM or 5.56 rounds (if you know the best places to buy the rounds).

Also the time commitment. If you practice a lot or plan on doing competition, you will be spending time field stripping a lot of hours, with a lot of time cleaning.

5.56 just oil it every once in a while if it's been a while since you shot it, or when it gets dry. Cleaning is negligible, and preferential to each owner.
Same with 9MM.

I will advise. If you are planning on learning the basics, it is a great idea to practice how to field strip, diagnose gun issues, and learn technique.
I personally got rid of my first two rimfire guns (a rifle and pistol) after learning the basics.
Like you will spend no more than $120 for 1,000 rounds of practice.
It's a cost effective way to practice.

Enjoy your choice whichever it is!

[RikersBeard]

WAT

Here you go: https://wbtguns.com/categories/Calif...lr.html?page=1

[Zenderfall]

Problem is even rimfire uppers are expensive, so I didn't think it was worth it.

Bear Creek Armory .22LR complete AR uppers are around $250.00. I don?t consider that expensive. I own one and know two other people that have one as well, all three uppers shoot fine, accurate enough and no problems. I know people are going to jump in and cite all the major issues in the past but I think its been resolved by now. And yes, i do know they got busted a few years back hiring illegal aliens.

Moving up to a CMMG or JP will cost more, yes they can get expensive but, like everything else, there?s a price range.

[P5Ret]

So basically between centerfire/rimfire CA laws on purchases/waiting periods.

Rimfire Pistols, you must wait 30 days between the start of DROS for each rimfire pistol. Usually it's best to give it an extra day, so wait 31 days for the next rimfire pistol.

Centerfire pistols are the same law for cooldown. Both also require 10-day (10 24 hour day period) before you can finish DROS and take outside of FFL store/shop. But still you have to wait 30/31 days between each purchase (whether rimfire or centerfire pistol).

If you purchase a rimfire/centerfire pistol, you may purchase a shotgun at the same time, and put both on 10-day cooldown. If I'm correct, there is still a 30-day wait period for both if you pair the two guns in a DROS pickup after 10-days. There is also some law for bolt-action rifles, but I'm not 100% sure of it. Please someone fill in about bolt-action.

If you buy a centerfire rifle, you must wait 10 days before DROS is clear and you can pick it up. If it is a complete rifle, you must wait 30/31 days between each centerfire rifle and pistol purchase if you are planning on buying a pistol and centerfire rifle (with 30/31 days between each). You may purchase a shotgun at the same time with the centerfire rifle.

If you buy a complete rimfire rifle you must wait 10 days before DROS is clear and you pick it up. If it is a complete rifle, you must wait 30/31 days between each rimfire rifle (complete rifle) and pistol purchase if you are planning on buying a pistol and rimfire rifle (with 30/31 days between each). You may purchase a shotgun at the same time with the rimfire rifle.

If you are planning on buying a centerfire rifle and centerfire pistol, or a rimfire rifle and rimfire pistol, or centerfire rifle with rimfire pistol and vice versa, you must spread 30/31 days between the start of each gun's DROS beginning date.

If you are buying a serialized lower receiver only (centerfire, let's say, for an AR-15), you may buy as many of those as you want. They do not affect full/complete rifle or full/complete pistol purchases. But there must be a 10-day cooldown period before each serialized AR-15 lower receiver.
Also, AR-15 serialized lowers do not affect cooldown on any complete pistol or complete rifle purchase.
You may buy a serialized AR-15 lower in between or in the middle of a cooldown on any complete rifle or complete pistol purchase.
Fellow members, please correct me if I'm incorrect. I don't think it's allowed to buy like 5 lower receivers all at once.

If you are buying a complete/fully assembled upper receiver (centerfire, let's say, for an AR-15), you do not have to buy those in person in california or have them shipped to an FFL (Dealer). There is no serial number on those parts, as the actual "gun" is considered the lower receiver, which has a serial number and requires a 10-day cooldown. You may buy as many uppers as you want, and they don't have to be registered, and you can buy them online if you want and have them shipped to your home.

Other parts, let's say for AR-15's, like stocks, trigger kits, pistol grips/featureless grips, lower parts hardware, may be purchased the same way without registration through an FFL. You may buy them online and have them shipped to your home as much as you want.
(HOWEVER, you may not install a full-auto trigger on any rifle in California and I think any other state. You may not install a full-auto trigger on any pistol either).

Fully automatic weapons are not allowed in California, and I think they are also banned in all states.

If you have a rimfire rifle, it may have a pistol grip and adjustable stock, as long as it has a barrel length of 16'' or more.
That means for rimfire rifles (semi-automatic), you do not have to have a fixed magazine, or upper release kit, or permanent fixed magazine that has to be loaded individually with rounds as long as it is a barrel length of 16'' or longer.

If you have a centerfire rifle, it may have a pistol grip and adjustable stock, as long as it has a barrel length of 16'' or more, with the requirement that the magazine is fixed.
You may have a quick release kit to break open the upper from the lower in order to reload a magazine (maximum 10+1 rounds).
If the magazine is free to remove from the rifle with a pistol grip and adjustable stock, CA considers that an "assault weapon", which is not allowed anymore.
If the barrel length is less than 16'', you may not have an adjustable stock.
If the barrel length is less than 16'', the only way you may have a pistol grip is if the magazine is permanently fixed, meaning you cannot remove the magazine. Therefore it would be an individually loaded (1 round at a time) rifle with a permanent magazine.
Also, for barrels on centerfire rifles less than 16'', you have to have a fixed stock as well as a permanently fixed magazine.
The stock cannot be telescopic, and must be the same length at all times of operation of the rifle.

If you would like a removable magazine on a centerfire rifle that does not require separating the upper from the lower, or loading rounds individually, it would have to be a featureless rifle.
In that situation, it must have a barrel length of 16'' or more, and the grip cannot be a pistol grip. Also the stock must be fixed as well, and not collapsible or telescopic.

If you have a rifle without any of these conditions met as a whole as specified above, it must have been purchased before a certain date (I think 2017/2018), and also registered ahead of time before the law change in California. It should have been registered with the State Bureau of Firearms before the registration period has closed.
If it was registered both federally and also with the state bureau of firearms before the closing/end date of the law change, you may keep it.

I don't know much about shotgun laws. I don't own any.
Also I don't know much about pistol modification laws.
I think changing the sights, and grips are allowed. But I am not sure on the legality of other things, such as springs or other parts.

Hope this helps.
Calgunners, if anybody finds anything wrong, please correct me and I will update the post.

There is so much wrong and just plain confusing in this post it will make your head spin.

A brief summary would have gotten you much further.

1 in 30 applies to purchases from a dealer's stock. It applies to all handguns, and semi-automatic centerfire rifles only at this time. Starting 1-1-24 it will apply to all guns. Shotguns, or any rifles that are not centerfire semi-automatic are OK for multiple purchases in a 30 day period.

Buying a handgun and a rimfire rifle will not trigger a 1 in 30 reject if someone buys another rifle that is not centerfire semi- auto.

Also there is no federal gun registration.

[mrahkus]

There is so much wrong and just plain confusing in this post it will make your head spin.

A brief summary would have gotten you much further.

1 in 30 applies to purchases from a dealer's stock. It applies to all handguns, and semi-automatic centerfire rifles only at this time. Starting 1-1-24 it will apply to all guns. Shotguns, or any rifles that are not centerfire semi-automatic are OK for multiple purchases in a 30 day period.

Buying a handgun and a rimfire rifle will not trigger a 1 in 30 reject if someone buys another rifle that is not centerfire semi- auto.

Also there is no federal gun registration.

Thank you. You brave attempt to make the issue less confusing still leaves questions in my mind. You say:

Shotguns, or any rifles that are not centerfire semi-automatic are OK for multiple purchases in a 30 day period.

Does the above go away on Jan 1, 2024?
The above sentence comes after and one might assume is not impacted by your statement:

Starting 1-1-24 it will apply to all guns.

My location: San Francisco Bay Area

[Quiet]

Shotguns, or any rifles that are not centerfire semi-automatic are OK for multiple purchases in a 30 day period.

Does the above go away on Jan 1, 2024?
The above sentence comes after and one might assume is not impacted by your statement:

Starting 1-1-24 it will apply to all guns.

Currently (from now to 12-31-2023), the 1 in 30 day wait applies to all handguns and to semi-auto centerfire rifles.

Starting 01-01-2024 [PC 27535(c)], the 1 in 30 day wait applies to all firearms, including (stripped and complete) receivers and firearm precursor parts ("1-80% receivers"). [PC 27535(a)]



Penal Code 27535
(a) A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one firearm within any 30-day period. This subdivision does not authorize a person to make an application to purchase a combination of firearms, completed frames or receivers, or firearm precursor parts within the same 30-day period.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(1) Any law enforcement agency.
(2) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties.
(3) Any state or local correctional facility.
(4) Any private security company licensed to do business in California.
(5) Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, and who is authorized to, and does carry a firearm during the course and scope of employment as a peace officer.
(6) Any motion picture, television, or video production company or entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature involves the use of a firearm.
(7) Any person who may, pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 27600), Article 3 (commencing with Section 27650), or Article 4 (commencing with Section 27700), claim an exemption from the waiting period set forth in Section 27540.
(8) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).
(9) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, and has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) of Chapter 2.
(10) The exchange of a firearm where the dealer purchased that firearm from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.
(11) The replacement of a firearm when the person?s firearm was lost or stolen, and the person reported that firearm lost or stolen pursuant to Section 25250 prior to the completion of the application to purchase the replacement.
(12) The return of any firearm to its owner.
(13) A community college that is certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training to present the law enforcement academy basic course or other commission-certified law enforcement training.
(c) This section shall become operative on January 1, 2024.

[The Hamsterball]

There is so much wrong and just plain confusing in this post it will make your head spin.

A brief summary would have gotten you much further.

1 in 30 applies to purchases from a dealer's stock. It applies to all handguns, and semi-automatic centerfire rifles only at this time. Starting 1-1-24 it will apply to all guns. Shotguns, or any rifles that are not centerfire semi-automatic are OK for multiple purchases in a 30 day period.

Buying a handgun and a rimfire rifle will not trigger a 1 in 30 reject if someone buys another rifle that is not centerfire semi- auto.

Also there is no federal gun registration.

I'm only considering purchases from a dealer/FFL.

Also you are correct about rimfire rifles.
I had forgotten to mention that.
Actually, I was off on my post on that one.
Rimfire rifles can be purchased outside of the 30/31 day period.
You can buy one in between centerfire pistol/rifle purchases.

I am not sure on private party or familial transfers regulations.
Also, when you purchase from an FFL, they automatically register it for you in the federal systems. I have brief recollection, but I think FBI/ATF have it in their record, but I might be wrong.

Also it's a good idea to keep a record with the CA Bureau of Firearms in their CFARS system.

I have been told it's not necessary, but I keep an account with them just in case. And I regularly file paperwork with the state any time I have sold to FFL a firearm I previously had owned.

[Quiet]

Also, when you purchase from an FFL, they automatically register it for you in the federal systems. I have brief recollection, but I think FBI/ATF have it in their record, but I might be wrong.

You are indeed, wrong.

There is no Federal firearm registration system for non-NFA firearms and, since 1986, it is illegal for the Federal Gov or any Federal LE agency to maintain a firearm registration database. [18 USC 926(a)(3)]

Firearm registration systems are something that happens at the local (State/County/City) level due to State's rights (10th Amendment).

When a CA FFL dealer transfers a firearm, the CA DROS system reports/registers that firearm with CA DOJ BOF.



18 USC 926
(a) The Attorney General may prescribe only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter, including-
(3) regulations providing for effective receipt and secure storage of firearms relinquished by or seized from persons described in subsection (d)(8) or (g)(8) of section 922.
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's  authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

[The Hamsterball]

You are indeed, wrong.

There is no Federal firearm registration system for non-NFA firearms and, since 1986, it is illegal for the Federal Gov or any Federal LE agency to maintain a firearm registration database. [18 USC 926(a)(3)]

Firearm registration systems are something that happens at the local (State/County/City) level due to State's rights (10th Amendment).

When a CA FFL dealer transfers a firearm, the CA DROS system reports/registers that firearm with CA DOJ BOF.



18 USC 926
(a) The Attorney General may prescribe only such rules and regulations as are necessary to carry out the provisions of this chapter, including-
(3) regulations providing for effective receipt and secure storage of firearms relinquished by or seized from persons described in subsection (d)(8) or (g)(8) of section 922.
No such rule or regulation prescribed after the date of the enactment of the Firearms Owners' Protection Act may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or dispositions be established. Nothing in this section expands or restricts the Secretary's  authority to inquire into the disposition of any firearm in the course of a criminal investigation.

Oh. I stand corrected.

I wasn't aware of that.

Please keep this in mind whomever reads this thread.

Everything else should be suffice.

So correction:
- Rimfire long guns do not affect 30/31 day cooldown for other types of FFL firearm purchases
- There is no federal database for firearms, only by the State BOF
- Registering with your own account on CFARS is not required or optional.

Sorry about that.
I might make an edit to my post in a few days when I get time.

[P5Ret]

I'm only considering purchases from a dealer/FFL.

Also you are correct about rimfire rifles.
I had forgotten to mention that.
Actually, I was off on my post on that one.
Rimfire rifles can be purchased outside of the 30/31 day period.
You can buy one in between centerfire pistol/rifle purchases.

I am not sure on private party or familial transfers regulations.
Also, when you purchase from an FFL, they automatically register it for you in the federal systems. I have brief recollection, but I think FBI/ATF have it in their record, but I might be wrong.

Also it's a good idea to keep a record with the CA Bureau of Firearms in their CFARS system.

I have been told it's not necessary, but I keep an account with them just in case. And I regularly file paperwork with the state any time I have sold to FFL a firearm I previously had owned.

You should probably just stop trying to give advise on the law, your interpretation/explanation isn't anywhere near accurate. You're making things way more complicated than they need to be.

Real simple the only firearms that are affected by the one in 30 law at this time are all handguns, and semiauto centerfire rifles, private party transactions are exempt.

You could walk into your local dealer tomorrow and buy as many non-semiauto rifles as you bank account could handle.

I'm not sure why you would think it's a good idea to duplicate things with CFARS. That work was already done by the dealer when they entered the DROS into the computer. Once they deliver the firearm it creates a record in AFS linking that firearm to you.

I'd suggest you read the relevant laws instead of guessing, or relaying inaccurate info that someone else gave you to start with.

[bohoki]

yea the nomenclature is confusing

california doesnt really have an assault rifle it has the classes "assault weapon rifle" "assault weapon pistol" and "assault weapon shotgun"

i guess we could shorten it to AW rifle AW pistol(handgun) and AW shotgun

AW pistols include rimfire which would include 22 rimfire

i so wanted some company to bring back 44 henry and make assaulty looking rifles to use it just to "loophole" the law but i'm sure all the invesment in tooling up would be quashed by a late night new law addendum


ooh i guess i missed there is the "assault weapon other" now which is firearms not intended to be fired from the shoulder but are not "concealable" meaning they are not "handguns"