Who needs cocking serrations?

[sigstroker]

[yacko]

Needs shock buffers though....

Whats the springweight? 4 ounces?

[TrailerparkTrash]

Yeah, the title of the video should be, “How soon ‘till I destroy my gun.”

It’s like driving a 4x4 off road and without shocks/suspension.

[sigstroker]

Wat? How is air racking going to destroy his gun?

[nedro]

It not the air racking that's the issue.
It's the live fire slamming the slide with no resistance.

[Dan_Eastvale]

Seems like it should also throw off cycle timing and cause major feed issues

[sigstroker]

It not the air racking that's the issue.
It's the live fire slamming the slide with no resistance.

???

[nedro]

You may not agree with me. And that's perfectly fine.
But to not understand what I said is surprising to me.
Do you not understand basic unchecked force vs. Shock absorption?

[subscriber]

Seems like it should also throw off cycle timing and cause major feed issues

As demonstrated in the first video below, the softer the recoil spring, the more time there is for the mag spring to raise the rounds in the mag, and the more reliable feeding is. This, up to the point where the jolt to the frame might cause inertial feeding, with rounds popping out of the mag ahead of the breech face and extractor. Not ideal, but not a real problem, except for internal extractor 1911s.

As for "timing", that is driven by the relative inertia of the bullet compared to the combined mass of the slide and barrel (while locked together for a short distance of slide travel, before the bullet leaves the muzzle). Spring forces resisting slide opening are the equivalent of 1 or 2% of the above mentioned inertial forces. Considering that people lighten slides without bulging cartridge cases, even firing with no recoil spring will not explode the gun - see second video below.

As for beating up the gun, with a light frame your hand is what takes the pounding when the slide stops full open. If you can shoot a lot of rounds with a soft recoil spring, without your hand stinging, then how much of a pounding is the gun taking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUecHstU4QQ

Not a model of gun handling, but the video below demonstrates that a very soft recoils spring (missing in this case) clearly won't upset the "timing" of the gun. It just prevents loading of the next round:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyis5h9MvUU

[subscriber]

If you can block the slide with your thumb, how much frame pounding can it generate with a light recoil spring?

Yes, depending on the caliber the average force applied to the bullet and the slide can be over 1000 lb while the bullet travels down the barrel, but it is applied for a very short time, and only for less than the first 0.1" of slide travel (for a .45 1911).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI8xiUnX8Xo

There are many more slide blocking videos on youtube demonstrating the same thing, under search terms "Holding a semi-auto slide"

By the way, the first video in my post above has slow motion footage to demonstrate what happens with different weight recoil springs. I mention this explicitly, should someone be tempted to post a clever retort, without at least considering the evidence offered.

[sigstroker]

Who said it had a lighter recoil spring? Not the guy in the video, just some schmoe itt.

[nedro]

Subscriber, when I swing a 10 lbs sledge hammer onto a 4 foot metal stake to secure a concrete form, the force applied to the stake is only there for a fraction of a second.
If you try to stop my swing at the beginning of travel, it's easy because you are applying the force at or close to the moment of inertia.
If you try to stop it at the point of contact, God help you.
That's called momentum.
Again, not saying that you are going to break your gun. But you are applying much more force to your slide and frame by doing that. And probably much more than you ever thought, considering your cavalier attitude about the subject.

[nedro]

Subscriber, when I swing a 10 lbs sledge hammer onto a 4 foot metal stake to secure a concrete form, the force applied to the stake is only there for a fraction of a second.
If you try to stop my swing at the beginning of travel, it's easy because you are applying the force at or close to the moment of inertia.
If you try to stop it at the point of contact, God help you.
That's called momentum.
Again, not saying that you are going to break your gun. But you are applying much more force to your slide and frame by doing that. And probably much more than you ever thought, considering your cavalier attitude about the subject.

[subscriber]

Who said it had a lighter recoil spring? Not the guy in the video, just some schmoe itt.

The only way that such limp flicks will retract the slide is if the recoil spring is very light. By watching the slide return to battery it is obvious the recoil spring is soft. The guy in the video even comments about people who think his pistol must be unreliable, because he can "air rack" it, here: https://youtu.be/tnLuT0Y7LKc?t=16

To air rack a pistol with a regular recoil spring is going to require that you accelerate it forwards at somewhere over 15 Gs. He is not moving that abruptly. I estimate his spring is a "5 lb" spring, so only requiring a 5 G acceleration to retract the slide, once the hammer is cocked.

He may not reply, but I emailed him to ask about his recoil spring at PewViewYT@Gmail.com

[subscriber]

Nedro,

I agree that using a soft recoil spring has to shock the frame and slide more than the correct spec spring. That is, unless you are shooting very soft loads; which may not cycle reliably with a regular recoil spring.

So, I am not advocating what these guys are doing. I am arguing that the "timing" of the gun being off and "unlocking prematurely" is nonsense. Not with a locked breech pistol, nor with a blowback action. The difference is that a blowback action tends to have a higher slide or breechblock velocity, and that needs a stronger spring to reduce the impact with the frame or receiver. The spring is not "keeping the action closed" to a meaningful degree.

A 10 or 20 lb spring cannot resist 3000 lb peak force driving the bullet forwards and the slide back, on a .45 1911, for example. Not even the average force of 1000 lb to achieve 850 FPS with a 230 grain bullet down an effective barrel length of 4.5".