Delete delete delete please

[A_FEMALE_MAN]

[A_FEMALE_MAN]

Delete

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[gunsnferraris]

My FFL told me that any seller, should limit their PPT sales to 5 a year. But I don't think there's a limit for the buyer. But I'm not 100% on that.

[Librarian]

That would only be an issue for sellers - selling without a license.

We don't hear about such enforcement actions here.

26500.

(a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless the person has been issued a license pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Any person violating this article is guilty of a misdemeanor.

Misdemeanors hardly ever get to appeals courts, where they might be noticed.

[TomReloaded]

It's up to you if you want to break a law with a paper trail with your name on it. The store letting try to do it or not is another story.

[JTROKS]

I’m sure several people go over the limit on 5 handgun PPT transaction. Heard several LEOs getting busted selling several non-rostered handguns. Not sure if DOJ looks at the actual transaction limit or the intent.

On the Federal side of the law per ATF:
“Who needs a Federal license to deal in firearms?
Under federal law, any person who engages in the business of dealing in firearms must be licensed.

What does it mean to be “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms”?
Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a per- son who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.”
Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.”
Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Has ATF defined what it means to be “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms?
ATF has published regulatory definitions for the terms “engaged in the business” and “principal objective of livelihood and profit.” ATF’s regulation defining when a person is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms is identical to the lan- guage of the statute, though in the definition of “dealer,” ATF clarified that the term includes “any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part-time basis.”

[1911RONIN]

I think I heard maybe one enforcement story where the guy did close to a hundred. I've heard of countless people who've gone over with no contact with the DOJ whatsoever.

IANAL


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[gunsnferraris]

My FFL told me that any seller, should limit their PPT sales to 5 a year. But I'm not sure if there's a limit for the buyer.

[CGZ]

What should someone do if they want to sell a collection? Take the loss having a FFL have it on consignment? It is 5 PPTs per year (multiple guns in one sale) or 5 guns a year etc.

[tigerpan]

I did get over the limit couple years ago. Nothing happened. However, I think the law is mostly focus for unlicensed firearms dealer. When you start doing 30, 50, 100 times a year, they will notices you.

[abinsinia]

What should someone do if they want to sell a collection? Take the loss having a FFL have it on consignment? It is 5 PPTs per year (multiple guns in one sale) or 5 guns a year etc.

I think they expect you to sell the guns out of state. You can do multiple gun in one transaction too.

[ar15barrels]

I’m honestly curious about this question. I hear mixed opinions from so many regulars at Gun stores that the 5 ppt limit is or isn’t enforced. Anyone got some insight?

It's realistically only enforced on people who are both buying AND selling a lot more than 5 guns a year.
Think off-roster flippers.

I seriously doubt that people selling off old personal collections are getting caught up in the law because when the DOJ checks into your activity and sees that you are not actively buying a bunch of guns to support your number of sales, they can realize see that the guns you are selling off are guns you had a long time.
They can at least see when you aquired the handguns if they are newer than 1989 on a PPT or if they are newer than 1925 on a dealer sale.

The enforcement actions we DO hear about are mostly law enforcement officers who are roster exempt and using that exemption to flip off-roster handguns in larger volume.

[Daddo]

What should someone do if they want to sell a collection? Take the loss having a FFL have it on consignment? It is 5 PPTs per year (multiple guns in one sale) or 5 guns a year etc.

It appears that you have the right idea but kindly permit me to simplify for anyone else who may need clarification ...

If you have a collection, and somebody wants to buy the whole collection, that constitutes one transaction. In other words, if you have 100 guns and the buyer wants all of them and you go to an FFL and you do a transfer for he/she to buy all 100 guns in a private party transaction, that constitutes one transaction. If they only wanted 20 guns, and they bought all 20 in one private party transaction, transferred properly at your local FFL, that constitutes one transaction. This is why you see people on Calguns selling multiple guns at the same time because they have large collections and if they sold each one individually, it would take 20 years to sell them all 100 being limited to five SALE transactions per year. If you sold 20 guns in five separate transactions, it would only take you five years to sell all 100. Look at it this way, it’s five SALE transactions per year (regardless of how many are in each transaction), not necessarily 5 guns per year. It’s a similar thing buying and selling automobiles. If you SELL MORE THAN five cars per year, the DMV would consider you a dealer and you would need proper licensing to do that.

Lastly, the problem with grouping guns together in one transaction limits the audience that would be able to purchase multiple guns at the same time. Most people buy them one at a time due to financial restrictions.

[71MUSTY]

I pretty sure our lazy legislators just cut and pasted the code for auto sales. Sale over 5 cars in a year you might be a dealer.

[norcal77]

It's realistically only enforced on people who are both buying AND selling a lot more than 5 guns a year.
Think off-roster flippers.

I seriously doubt that people selling off old personal collections are getting caught up in the law because when the DOJ checks into your activity and sees that you are not actively buying a bunch of guns to support your number of sales, they can realize see that the guns you are selling off are guns you had a long time.
They can at least see when you aquired the handguns if they are newer than 1989 on a PPT or if they are newer than 1925 on a dealer sale.

The enforcement actions we DO hear about are mostly law enforcement officers who are roster exempt and using that exemption to flip off-roster handguns in larger volume.