Online purchase

[Cheetz5]

Can I purchase a shotgun for my GF online and when it gets the the FFL just have her do all the paperwork for the background since its going to be hers?

[Librarian]

No.

Have her do it.

Of course, there's less hassle overall if you visit a local FFL with her and let her buy her own; if you want to make it a gift, give her the money before or after the FFL visit - giving it to her in the store, or trying to use your credit card would look like a straw purchase, and the FFL likely would cancel the sale/throw you out.

[jeremiah12]

It is not a good idea.

According to the instructions for the Federal Form 4473 question 21a, which are:

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.
EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith (who may or may not be prohibited). Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “no” to question 21.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black), Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 21.a. However, the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (h), (n), or (x).

You could purchase the shotgun for your girlfriend and legally fill out the form 3373 and answer 21a that you are the actual transferee/buyer. This does not meet the definition of a straw purchase.

From the perspective of the FFL though, it likely does not pass the smell test. One way the prohibited felons get guns is to have their non-prohibited girlfriends buy the guns for them. So if a woman goes in with her boyfriend and he does most of the talking and even hands over the money and she fills out the form, it sends up red flags and the FFL will often tell them to take a hike. I have seen this happened with married couples when the husband is the one doing the talking and selecting and then the wife starts to fill out the 4473. I have witnessed first hand a few FFLs telling them to forget it, it appears to be a straw purchase and he does not care if they are married, it is a hard no can do.

So give her the money or a gift card and have her buy it herself. The only other way is for you to purchase it, do the DROS, then go back and do a PPT to her. That is a waste of money.

By the time you pay the FFL fees to receive the gun from the online retailer and transfer it to you (remember they can charge you whatever they want to do this and many charge $100 or more on top of the DROS fee) you end up paying more than going to a local gun store or sporting goods store and buying it from them, even paying the CA price. Buying online and having it shipped to your local FFL still requires you to pay CA sales tax.

If your local gun store does not have it in stock, they might order it for you. If you live near a Sportsman Warehouse, they often sell at decent prices and if they do not have it in stock at your local SW, you can order it online and have it sent to the local SW at no cost. The only downside is some have longer lines than others to do the paperwork. My local one is fast at doing paperwork. I recently purchased a gun at another nearby one and they were painfully slow. they had 5 people working the gun counter and they still took an hour to process 5 people (it took one hour per transaction for the paperwork while at my local one they get the paperwork done in 15 minutes or less).

[gsparesa]

Who buys a shotgun for their girlfriend anyway?

[SilveradoColt21]

Who buys a shotgun for their girlfriend anyway?

.22 would be a better fit

[lastinline]

Cash her before, tell her not to mention it at the dealer, she fills out all the papers, she owns it, she keeps it. Easiest way.

[norcalAF]

Factor in the transfer fees, it's likely cheaper to have your legs order what you want. And do it all in your girlfriend's name. You aren't married.

[mikeyr]

interesting concept to me. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the straw purchase point of view. But on pure legal terms, I don't what is wrong with him purchasing it and having it sent to a FFL where the gf does the paper work and its her gun.

I can see where people may think this is a straw purchase, but temporarily lets assume its not and the OP is legitimately trying to gift his gf a shotgun as a surprise, i don't see any laws broken. I do see straw suspicions but not laws, am I wrong ?

By the way, i have done this with my daughter, but the FFL at the LGS knows me and knows my daughter and he knows both my daughter and I are not prohibited and have purchased many guns from him, we were both in store, she chose the gun (poor choice I tried to talk her out of) and I paid (birthday present), she did all the paper work. As I said though we both have purchased from him for over a decade and it was not a straw, I didn't want that jam-o-matic.

[12pewpew]

THAT'S A STRAW PURCHASE!!!

-Angry Vietnam vet working the gun counter.

[SharedShots]

Who buys a shotgun for their girlfriend anyway?

The boyfriend of some other guy's wife?

[jeremiah12]

interesting concept to me. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the straw purchase point of view. But on pure legal terms, I don't what is wrong with him purchasing it and having it sent to a FFL where the gf does the paper work and its her gun.

I can see where people may think this is a straw purchase, but temporarily lets assume its not and the OP is legitimately trying to gift his gf a shotgun as a surprise, i don't see any laws broken. I do see straw suspicions but not laws, am I wrong ?

By the way, i have done this with my daughter, but the FFL at the LGS knows me and knows my daughter and he knows both my daughter and I are not prohibited and have purchased many guns from him, we were both in store, she chose the gun (poor choice I tried to talk her out of) and I paid (birthday present), she did all the paper work. As I said though we both have purchased from him for over a decade and it was not a straw, I didn't want that jam-o-matic.

Under the definition provided by the ATF, it is not a straw purchase. That is not the issue.

The problem is it can appear to be a straw purchase to the FFL. The FFL does not know them. He does not know if after the pick up she will walk out the door and hand the gun to him because that was the intent all along.

It will come and bit the FFL in the behind if the boyfriend is caught using the shotgun in a crime and the ATF traces the sale back to the FFL who sold it to his girlfriend as a straw purchase. It puts the FFL license on the line. The ATF has sent out many bulletins about this to FFLs and have revoked licenses over straw purchases.

One way criminals get their guns is to have girlfriends buy it for them and often they go into the gun store, select the gun, pay for it and have the girlfriend fill out the paperwork.

So for many FFLs, paying for the gun and having someone else fill out the paperwork is a red flag.

The reason you were able to do it is your FFL knows you well. For those of us who buy regularly and use the same FFL who gets to know us well, they will do transactions for us they will not do for others they do not know that just walk in off the street. In your case, the FFL knew both you and your daughter and knew for a fact she was your daughter. There were many other indicators that this was not a straw purchase, and you had made many purchases before and so has your daughter and all went without a glitch. Parents are always buying gifts for their kids, even when they are adults. It probably does not send up much of a red flag to the ATF either.

My son, who is now 27 has yet to purchase a gun because his grandfather and I have gifted him all of his guns. The one I bought for his gift for graduation with his Master's degree I had to wait until he moved out of CA for his job because what he wanted was off-roster. By the time I made the purchase I knew the FFL well because I had already transferred a few guns to my son through him and when ever I visit, we go shooting at the on-site range.

So when it came time to order the gun, I paid with my credit card and my son filled out the paper work. My son is in Illinois and so has to deal with the FOID card BS and can be required to bring his guns to the State police office at any time to show still has all the ones registered to him so the FFL was not worried about a straw purchase, especially since I had already sent a few guns to transfer to him already.

[gsparesa]

.22 would be a better fit

I was thinking maybe jewelry and something from Victoria's Secret. That way she could thank me later.

[SilveradoColt21]

I was thinking maybe jewelry and something from Victoria's Secret. That way she could thank me later.

Kay Jewelers is my preferred place to lol, I love taking the wife to VS, she always buys something "comfortable"

[My600]

Buy her a gift card from a store where she is going to buy her shot gun. Then she can do whatever the hell she want with that gift card.