Transporting/Using Freedom Week Mags

[RickD427]

Champu,

That's a very good point, and it emphasizes the change in definition of "Fixed Magazine" and the additional registration window provided for BBRAW's under PC 30900(c)(1). My word choice of "Fixed Magazine" may not have been the best, because that definition changed midstream.

But the underlying point remains unchanged. Under a strict and narrow reading of the regs, one can run a large-capacity magazine in a registered BBRAW.

But if you broadly read the regs, and apply the legal theory of "newly constructed weapon" articulated in the regs, there is a basis to conclude criminal liability for so doing.

[champu]

A rifle with a bullet button does not have a fixed magazine because you don’t have to disassemble the action to change the magazine. That was the entire point of the most recent AWB.

How can putting a 30 round magazine in a registered assault weapon that has a bullet button be construed as having a fixed magazine of more than 10 rounds if it doesn’t have a fixed magazine?

[RickD427]

Wait, why can't you run a high capacity magazine in a bullet button registered a salt weapon?

And side note unrelated to the above, the DOJ had no authority to promulgate the language in 11 CCR 5491. The statute is controlling (30515). All of my AWs (BB and from 1999) are on the same reg list with no delineation or asterisk to differentiate them and I believe it shows the same way when a check is run by LE on their terminal). I have neither seen nor heard of a case yet where someone was prosecuted for possession of an unregistered assault weapon who had registered it and subsequently removed their bullet button. This is not legal advice for people to remove bullet buttons from their registered assault weapons. It's just an FYI

I think that you've just answered your own question.

For the record, I agree with your conclusion that "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon" provisions contained in 11CCR5491 lack a proper statutory foundation. But our collective views on the point do not invalidate the regulation.

The (untested) theory is that by modifying a "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon" one creates a new, and unregistered, Assault Weapon. That action violates Penal Code section 30600. You can narrowly read 11CCR5491 to only address the removal of the "Bullet Button" in which case it would not prohibit the use of large-capacity magazines in a BBRAW. But it's unwise to read regulations narrowly, particularly when doing so creates felony criminal liability. Read broadly, and applying the "creation of a new weapon" theory described in the regulation, one creates a new Assault Weapon when replacing the 10 round fixed magazine with a large-capacity fixed magazine.

In my posts, I tend to be very cautious, and tend to read statutes and regulations with a view to keeping good folks outta trouble. California's laws are not a model of clarity, and as Judge Benitez has aptly pointed out, seem to be a trap for well intended folks.

[ohsmily]

Please keep in mind that the Assault Weapon Regs (although not the Penal Code) treat a "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon" differently than a "Registered Assault Weapon."

For that reason, they're not the same.

You can run a large-capacity magazine in a "Registered Assault Weapon" with no problem.

However, given the way the regs are worded, if you run a large-capacity magazine in a "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon", then you have created an unregistered "Assault Weapon" that is different from the "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon." Please see 11CCR5491(a) for the particulars.

Also please note that we have not previously discussed "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapons" anywhere in this thread. That's an important distinction because the rules are quite different.

Wait, why can't you run a high capacity magazine in a bullet button registered a salt weapon?

And side note unrelated to the above, the DOJ had no authority to promulgate the language in 11 CCR 5491. The statute is controlling (30515). All of my AWs (BB and from 1999) are on the same reg list with no delineation or asterisk to differentiate them and I believe it shows the same way when a check is run by LE on their terminal). I have neither seen nor heard of a case yet where someone was prosecuted for possession of an unregistered assault weapon who had registered it and subsequently removed their bullet button. This is not legal advice for people to remove bullet buttons from their registered assault weapons. It's just an FYI

[RickD427]

Yes I mean a bullet button registered AW with a 30 round magazine.

That combination can get you into a lot of trouble. Please see my comments in Post #15.

[Gundiver]

Yes I mean a bullet button registered AW with a 30 round magazine.

[RickD427]

Which is why, as this thread so aptly illustrates, going featureless is the way to go.

No reg, no bb. Just swap mags like a man and keep shootin'.




Rick, it cannot be overstated: Your participation here on CGN is worth it's weight in gold. And, it is a comfort. Thanks again for taking the time to post knowledgeable and relevant info, always.

Thank you for the kind the comments. I try to help and to keep my occasional "screw-ups" to a minimum.

[200Apples]

Which is why, as this thread so aptly illustrates, going featureless is the way to go.

No reg, no bb. Just swap mags like a man and keep shootin'.




Rick, it cannot be overstated: Your participation here on CGN is worth it's weight in gold. And, it is a comfort. Thanks again for taking the time to post knowledgeable and relevant info, always.

[RickD427]

Maybe he meant using high capacity magazines in registered AWs, like bullet button assault weapons.

Please keep in mind that the Assault Weapon Regs (although not the Penal Code) treat a "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon" differently than a "Registered Assault Weapon."

For that reason, they're not the same.

You can run a large-capacity magazine in a "Registered Assault Weapon" with no problem.

However, given the way the regs are worded, if you run a large-capacity magazine in a "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon", then you have created an unregistered "Assault Weapon" that is different from the "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon." Please see 11CCR5491(a) for the particulars.

Also please note that we have not previously discussed "Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapons" anywhere in this thread. That's an important distinction because the rules are quite different.

[jcwatchdog]

Well then, let's back up a step.

What did you mean when you posted "What about a registered AW"?

Maybe he meant using high capacity magazines in registered AWs, like bullet button assault weapons.

[RickD427]

Well then, let's back up a step.

What did you mean when you posted "What about a registered AW"?

[Gundiver]

What about a Registered Assault Weapon?

If the weapon is registered as a Assault Weapon and has a fixed magazine, you can run the large-capacity magazine in it without making it any more "assaultier."

But who is going to fix the magazine on a weapon that is already a Registered Assault Weapon? That don't make no sense.

[BC1791]

So in other words you take legal advice that might effect the rest of your life, from anonymous people on gun forums?

Obviously not, but I'd love to hear you .02 on the subject as well.

[Olav]

What about a Registered Assault Weapon?

If the weapon is registered as a Assault Weapon and has a fixed magazine, you can run the large-capacity magazine in it without making it any more "assaultier."

But who is going to fix the magazine on a weapon that is already a Registered Assault Weapon? That don't make no sense.

Quite frankly, none of it makes any sense.

[RickD427]

What about a registered AW

What about a Registered Assault Weapon?

If the weapon is registered as a Assault Weapon and has a fixed magazine, you can run the large-capacity magazine in it without making it any more "assaultier."

But who is going to fix the magazine on a weapon that is already a Registered Assault Weapon? That don't make no sense.