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Where did you get most of your gun knowledge?

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  • slamfire1
    Banned
    • Aug 2015
    • 794

    What you learn reading the in-print monthly magazines, is what to buy. The business model is that the magazine makes its profits from advertisers, so the subscription is unreal cheap to the subscriber. This has been the business model since the Ladies Home Journal back in the 1880'S.

    So, the articles are there, so you will look at the ads. Most readers never understand what they are reading was carefully coordinated with Corporate Marketing bureaus, the in print writer has certain talking points, that marketing research indicated is important to the market. Even the "informational" articles on reloading, etc, are liberally sprinkled with product placements. The only brands that are mentioned are those with an ad in the magazine.

    The end result of this business model is, that which does not sell product, is not going to be in the document. Industry is only interested in educating you on what to buy, and advertising does not have to be logical, consistent, or truthful. Read vintage magazines and get your fill of nonsense, pseudo science, trend of the day, etc. What is in print is whatever it takes to get you running down to the local gunstore and buy, buy, buy.

    Industry tells you what you want to hear, and what you want to hear has shifted over the years. Hunting was a huge market after WW2, so most of what was in the magazines was about Magnums, and shooting creatures at long range with big bang stick. Now, the average age of hunters is "deceased", but the market for Mall Ninja's is huge, so tactical is huge. There is a segment into role acting as Cowboys, in fact, that was a viable market after WW2, but I think it is even larger now.

    If you notice, the best gunwriters have Journalist degrees, if that. They really don't know firearms history, theory, or function. Gunwriters are like these eaters you see on the food shows, they can open their mouths and chew, but they can't cook. And they don't need to, they are selected because they work cheap, are good at pushing product, and maybe have done something that is trendy and appeals to the audience of the day. I was told in print Gunwriters get about $400 per article, which is why they only shoot three shot groups, and not many of them, because bullets and ammunition is expensive. They are doing it to promote their brand. Their big payoff is in the books they write, celebrity endorsements, and some of them are on the NRA "keep happy" payroll.

    Post WW2 a large number or prominent writers were Lawmen, who earned their income with a gun on their hip, using their badge to kill whomever they could. Then they whopped it up as some great gunfight in the OK Corral. One prominent one was proud to brag that he was the first person to kill a man with a 44 Magnum. And readers ate it up. This was the era of the Cowboy movie and "The Fastest Man in the West", and the stories you read, and the guns and equipment that in the literature, followed that narrative. But that is only because the market wanted that.

    When I wanted to learn technical, I had to self educate. This is a starting list of books that were useful.


    1. “Technical Notes, Small Arms Design”, Author: John G. Rocha , available from Armalite (800) 336-0184, stock number NA1085 $ This soft cover pamphlet is a copy of the course material handout to a firearms class taught at Rock Island in the 60’s. Very interesting, a good number of formulas, but still very readable.

    2. Brassey’s Essential Guide to Military Small Arms, Design Principles and Operating Method, Author Allsp and Popelinsky, Brassey’s Inc, 1997 Out of print. This starts off simple and ends up very technical. This is a serious book and the final sections really require education in math, science, or engineering.

    3. The Machine Gun, Volume IV, parts X & XI, LTC George Chinn, pub 1955. Out of print but free download on web. This book should be the absolute first book to read for someone who is interested in the principles of automatic weapon design. Really an excellent statement of principles. It is a comment on the general state of technical ignorance in our society that according to the book dealer who sold me a copy for $100.00, the general public was not that much interested in Vol IV. Which is about the theory and design of machine guns. Instead, buyers wanted the volumes with the pretty pictures of old guns! Which, are interesting, but sort of junk food compared with Vol IV. Now that the entire series is on the web, no one has to buy a hard copy, but I suspect the most viewed volumes are still the ones with the pretty machine gun pictures.

    4. The Bolt Action by Stuart Ottenson. First edition by Winchester Press 1976. Ottesnon later added a Volume II which came out in a two volume edition by Wolfe Publishing in 1985. These books are very non mathematical for a general audience, but the principles, particularly expounded in Vol 1 on the Mauser 98 are, in my opinion, fundamental to the understanding of bolt action design.

    5. AMCP 706-260. Engineering Design Handbook: Automatic Weapons. Out of print. The most technical and mathematical design book I have found to date. Assumes a high level of knowledge in firearms design, mathematics, and Mechanical Engineering. A technical degree, preferably in Mechanical Engineering is really needed to attempt to understand the presented material. This was created in the early 60’s, and reflects the designs, and the design knowledge of the day.

    6. AMCP 706-252 Engineering Design Handbook: Gun Tubes. Out of print. Very interesting, not limited to small arms.

    AMCP stands for Army Material Command Pamphlet. There were about one hundred AMCP Pamphlets covering information ranging from Statistics to Automotive Design. A printed version of AMCP 706-260 and other out of print AMCP pamphlets can be ordered from NTIS at 703-605-6000. These are not cheap, they want $45.00 to $150.00 for some of them. All of them can be found on the web.

    7. Small Arms & Cannon, Smith and Haslam, RMC of Science, Shrivenham UK, 1st Edition, 1982, Brassey's Publishers LTD.

    8. Small Arms, Volume 6 of Brassey’s Land Warfare into the 21st Century, copyright 1999. Brassey’s UK, Authors D. F. Allsop and MA Toomey. Out of print. Excellent book, an expansion of reference 2 with more technical data added.

    9. Ballistics, Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition. CRC press, 2008, Authors Donald E. Carlucci and Sidney S Jacobson. This book is highly mathematical, primarily artillery related. A considerable advancement on interior, exterior, and terminal effects from earlier references.

    Comment

    • Barang
      CGN Contributor
      • Aug 2013
      • 11363

      1- basic class training.
      2- calguns.
      3- youtubes.

      Comment

      • Bill Carson
        Veteran Member
        • Nov 2009
        • 3574

        Originally posted by beerman
        Funniest friggin post this week😂
        You're welcome.

        Comment

        • Cali-Glock
          In Memoriam
          • Mar 2005
          • 3890





          1 Corinthians 2:2

          "Orwell was an Optimist" - Cali-Glock
          "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds

          Freedom Week: March 29-April 6, 2019 // Freedom Day: April 23-24, 2020 - Thank you, Judge Benitez!
          NRA - Endowment Member // CRPA - Life Member (Disclaimer: Everything I write is fiction. I am just here to try out ideas for my to-be-written great-American-novel.)

          Comment

          • Cali-Glock
            In Memoriam
            • Mar 2005
            • 3890

            A current favorite resource:



            Your destination for rare, exotic, and prototype firearms.


            1 Corinthians 2:2

            "Orwell was an Optimist" - Cali-Glock
            "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds

            Freedom Week: March 29-April 6, 2019 // Freedom Day: April 23-24, 2020 - Thank you, Judge Benitez!
            NRA - Endowment Member // CRPA - Life Member (Disclaimer: Everything I write is fiction. I am just here to try out ideas for my to-be-written great-American-novel.)

            Comment

            • rg_1111@yahoo.com
              Calguns Addict
              • Feb 2003
              • 5680

              Right here on CG. Some of the people here could rewrite a book on history of firearms.

              Comment

              • ojisan
                Agent 86
                CGN Contributor
                • Apr 2008
                • 11745

                I've always been mechanically inclined.
                For guns in my family I was on my own.
                I liked handguns the most, how they went together and stayed together was like those old china wood puzzles with the interlocking parts.
                I used to buy cheap and broken guns just to take them apart and see how they worked.
                I would fix them and sell them off and get more.
                Lots of book reading.

                The Internet these days is a big help with many jobs.
                Back in the day you had to figure it all out yourself.

                Originally posted by Citadelgrad87
                I don't really care, I just like to argue.

                Comment

                • BigPimping
                  CGN Contributor
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 21383

                  A lot of it here.
                  sigpic

                  PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person

                  When pimping begins, friendship ends.

                  Don't let your history be a mystery

                  Comment

                  • Subotai
                    I need a LIFE!!
                    • Jun 2010
                    • 11284

                    Yosemite Sam.
                    RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (Say When!)
                    Free Vespuchia!

                    Comment

                    • brassburnz
                      Veteran Member
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 3553

                      Always had an interest. Learned from older relatives. Read everything I could find. Worked at a reloading shop/FFL. Went to SHOT as often as I could. Had media credentials from Firearms Marketing Group (American Handgunner/Guns) from Cameron Hopkins. I spent several SHOT Shows hanging out with the late, great Dennis Tippman, Sr. who made the Tippmann Arms full-auto mini M2 and 1917 machine guns. Got to meet and talk with some legends like Col. Rex Applegate.

                      I didn't learn what accuracy was until I started shooting in a bullseye league with a dozen 2600 shooters. I learned more from those guys in 6 months than all my years of shooting combined.

                      Last edited by brassburnz; 12-16-2020, 8:30 PM.
                      NRA Life Member
                      CRPA Life Member

                      Comment

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