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[SomeGuy75]

[pohorsky]

Remember that in a fight distance is your friend. If you are going to attack them, that means you are with 6 feet of them and that's too close for me.
20 gauge/ 410 with good ammo also works.

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[FalconLair]

That's not how self defense works. You don't go hunting for the bad guys in your house (or anywhere else), you hunker down in the best strategic position you have, use your gun to control the situation if they advance on you, wait for the law enforcement to show up. You do it this way precisely because of all the legal consequences - so what if they steal your TV, it's way cheaper than the courts.

Of course, you have all the justification to shoot once someone breaks into your house in CA. The question is what your smartest course of action is, taking into account the reality of the legal landscape, not just the moral superiority about someone violating your house.

that's the best advice - just because you know your house doesn't mean you can't be ambushed in it - if you really feel someone is in your house call LE and wait - there is no property in your home that is irreplaceable to the point of risking your life over - stay in a safe area (armed) and wait for LE

As for the baseball bat, it's still similar legal consideration. If you manage to prevail, the question will be whether you overdid it. You're just exposing yourself to being injured or killed depending on what the intruders have on them and how skilled and strong they are. If you're looking for a less lethal option, there are tasers and other similar options that are more effective than the bat.

OP a bat requires close contact - that's the LAST thing you want

[-hanko]

Why are you in criminal court after a good shoot?

If I feel that I or another person near me may be in danger of death or serious physical harm from someone in my house, the law says deadly force is fine. To explain it to you simply, I don't need to verify that an unwelcome intruder is armed or not armed.

I and wife are in a safe room with the door closed and locked. If we hear the lock being fooled with, it's showtime big time.

That's not how self defense works. You don't go hunting for the bad guys in your house (or anywhere else), you hunker down in the best strategic position you have, use your gun to control the situation if they advance on you, wait for the law enforcement to show up. You do it this way precisely because of all the legal consequences - so what if they steal your TV, it's way cheaper than the courts.

Of course, you have all the justification to shoot once someone breaks into your house in CA. The question is what your smartest course of action is, taking into account the reality of the legal landscape, not just the moral superiority about someone violating your house.

This is, of course, unless you live in a city where they want to defund the police and you're one of the snowflakes who supports it - then you walk to the bad guys and reason with them. If you throw in a finger wag and a dirty look, combined with reasoning, it usually does the trick.

As for the baseball bat, it's still similar legal consideration. If you manage to prevail, the question will be whether you overdid it. You're just exposing yourself to being injured or killed depending on what the intruders have on them and how skilled and strong they are. If you're looking for a less lethal option, there are tasers and other similar options that are more effective than the bat.

IVC, that's an intelligent post...you don't see too many of those when a thread like this comes up.

It's exceptionally stupid trying to clear a house by yourself if you are not a professional. Far better to wait in safety.

Good ideas. For ammo, is there a shelf life keeping it loading in magazines, or even in a shotgun?

None whatsoever.

[amishfarmer]

Look my knowledge is limited but all my research has led me to take this approach to home defense. I know layers are the best defense, and the simpler you keep it when things get stressful the better.
1. I rent my home currently.My home is a single family home with many other houses nearby. Wooden fence that runs around the sides and back of the home not the front. I have a dog that barks at people who show up unannounced. So far only one camera.
So I dont have alot of layers defense due to the home being a rental and budget and so forth. So inside my home I am always armed. My family knows the plan depending on where the attacker enters. They know that they need to be essentially behind me in the home so if I need to shoot, I can without worrying about if I miss hitting one of them. The wife is calling 911 and the roommate is helping keep kids calm and collected.
My CCW class emphasized the point of the legalities of using lethal force. I dont want to have to shoot anyone unless all other options are gone. I will not be hunting around in my house, I will make sure my family is in the safe room and I'm in way ofthe only available route of entry. If they break in and steal the TV and run away, fine I'm cool with that. If they come after me or mine I will stop the threat.
Again, these tactics could vary depending on how much time I have. If I'm eating dinner downstairs and someone busts in armed, I'm shooting. If threat is something I have time to prepare for, then it changes. But keeping my family and myself safe are top priority.
I always hope that an attacker faced with lethal force decides to quit or run. I'm prepared to shoot, but only if I have to.

[oddball]

If you have doubts whether you can use a firearm to protect yourself in your own home, I would seriously reconsider/reevaluate your situation as a gun owner. My wife and I in the 1980s discussed and researched for a long time before we came to the final conclusion that we would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. Then we bought our first gun. Later we also retained a good friend of ours as a first line lawyer to call, and saved a "slush fund" specifically for emergencies such as defending ourselves in a shooting.

You have a Glock G19, great gun. IMO, a weapon light is an important part of home defense, and they don't cost a lot of money. All of our HD handguns and HD rifle have them.

[TheReluctantCraftstronaut]

That said, IF it came down to it, I don't want to be shooting through walls obviously. What exactly "type" of 9mm and 12 gauge shell should I be looking at that minimizes over penetration? Does this even exist?

First, when it comes to life and death circumstances, you never want to find yourself in a fair fight. The only restraint should be in your head, not in your tools imo. If someone is willing to break into your home, you know 100% that their intentions are NOT good, it's just a question of to what degree are their intentions... a tv? Or your life? A bat displayed on a wall or nearby may be a good backup if things go sideways, but it shouldn't be a planned first line of defense if you have significantly better options.

For the second part, I looked into this a lot and weighed the pros and cons of frangible ammo and things like that. Ultimately, the conclusion I made was that it is best to get ammo first and foremost to provide the best stopping power readily available in your caliber of choice and practice a lot so you don't miss. If the ammo won't pass through an interior wall, it's likely not a good candidate for self-defense. For what it's worth, I never found ammo that had been tested and proven to not pass through an interior wall.

For 9mm, the best option imo is high quality defensive ammo and lots of practice.

For 12 ga, my recommendation is the same, however I know a lot of people recommend #4 buck shot, which I've never seen on a store shelf. It has less penetration that 00 buck, but still imparts a lot of energy into the target. I have not seen much testing on #4 buckshot, so I can't say whether or not it would penetrate an interior wall, but my guess is that it would. But maybe there's some hope there... Also keep in mind, in most homes, even a defensive shotgun will have a tight pattern across the distances commonly seen inside of homes.

Having a plan that considers where attackers may enter your home, where you plan to be to engage them, and what your plan is to avoid getting your loved ones in the line of fire is important. No plan can perfectly capture every circumstance, but making a serious effort will at least help minimize your risk.

[oddball]

For 12 ga, my recommendation is the same, however I know a lot of people recommend #4 buck shot, which I've never seen on a store shelf. It has less penetration that 00 buck, but still imparts a lot of energy into the target. I have not seen much testing on #4 buckshot, so I can't say whether or not it would penetrate an interior wall, but my guess is that it would.

I have a 20 gauge Mossberg Shockwave loaded with #4 Buck and shot it at my buddy's private land. We had a couple of small sheets of scrap 1/2" drywall, double stacked, and the #4 buck blasted through it at 7 yards. 9mm, 5.56, .45acp, etc. Hell, even our .22LR guns went through them. Here is an entertaining clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSVn7ozXTQ

[IVC]

It's exceptionally stupid trying to clear a house by yourself if you are not a professional. Far better to wait in safety.

There is the skills part of the equation, but I think the bigger problem is what happens legally afterwards.

The case might or might not go to the criminal court, that will depend on the DA and the exact circumstances. We have recently witnessed how ultra-political these decisions can be with the couple in St Luis being charged. However, the family can always file a civil case, which is an emotional plea, and can have attorneys working pro bono against your paid legal defense, where the only question is how much money you're going to lose to the combination of the two attorney teams, whether the family can extract a dime from you or not.

So, even if you know how to clear your house, the decision is heavily weighed by other factors. Luckily, most confrontations of this sort end up with either the bad guys leaving immediately, or advancing on the people in the house, leaving no choice but to use force. Rarely would bad guys be content with an armed home owner yelling at them to leave while they casually try to take the TV off the wall - they don't know if they are about to be shot, so their decision making is almost always to flee or to escalate.

[sigstroker]

I am sure this has been discussed to ends but don't bite my head off, I am a newbie.

First, some thoughts. I am a new gun owner (Glock 19, Mossberg 590 Retrograde in deposit) I have been taught by friends and even taken a combat pistol course. So not "new" to shooting but new to ownership. Still new though.

The thought of using a firearm in my home comes to me as a final line of defense. A guy is in there, he's got a weapon, he has friends etc. Even then, it makes me uneasy at the thought of shooting someone and the years of legal fallout, even if everything 100% goes my way. Honestly, part of me thinks I will still reach for my baseball bat instead, in some way. I dunno, it's just a frightening thought overall.

That said, IF it came down to it, I don't want to be shooting through walls obviously. What exactly "type" of 9mm and 12 gauge shell should I be looking at that minimises over penetration? Does this even exist?

Why would you think there would be less fallout if you bashed his head in with a bat?

It sounds like you're not ready to make the hard call when it's nut cuttin' time. Until you are, might as well just let them kill you.

[j15w]

In the miniscule chance I'll ever have to use a firearm for home defense, penetration and other nitpicks will be the last thing on my mind. The only thing I will worry about is stopping the threat.

That being said, I have and still do put thought into my firing lanes, where I will safely hide, and ammo types.

I use 124 or 147 gr Federal HST in my 9mms. I use 230 gr Federal HST or 230 gr Winchester Ranger in my 45s. I use low recoil Federal LE 00 buck or #4 buck in my shotguns. I use 62 gr softpoint Federal in my .223s.