.357/.38 spl target ammo advice?

[B2D]

Hi all. I've had about 500 rounds through the 4" GP100 I bought a few months ago, and I've noticed something.

at 10 yards a lot of ammo I shoot in this revolver seems to shoot high. I've having trouble finding a cartridge that shoots flatter.

PMC .38 spl +p and Remington Golden Saber, both JHP rounds, seem to do best.

The sights are adjustable sights and it seems like as soon as I get the gun sighted in to shoot flat for the indoor shooting I do, I try something else and the POI shifts. I knew it could happen but I guess I didn't realize how much it can shift at close range.

Anyone else have a preferred brand of decent .357/.38 range ammo that they like for consistency? Would a gun with a longer barrel mitigate the variances in accuracy of the ammo load itself?

[Dirtlaw]

Here's a thought. If the purpose of this gun is self defense (1) get the most consistent round that serves that purpose (trial and error); (2) practice with that round because accuracy with the round you ultimately use is all that matters. Just my two cents. I'm sure the Calguns knowledge bank has a more technical one that is better.

[Pofoo]

Different bullet weights and velocities will change poi. Different brands with the same specs should shoot the same.

[DrewN]

I shoot paper with .38 wadcutters myself. Federal,Winchester,reloads.

[B2D]

Here's a thought. If the purpose of this gun is self defense (1) get the most consistent round that serves that purpose (trial and error); (2) practice with that round because accuracy with the round you ultimately use is all that matters. Just my two cents. I'm sure the Calguns knowledge bank has a more technical one that is better.

It's primarily a fun range gun, but I like the 4" barrel for the possibility of carrying it outdoors in rural areas or if I'm on a hike in a remote area.

[tabascoz28]

That's why a lot of people reload to dial in their best load. A lot if time it is not even high powered.

[FeuerFrei]

Hi all. I've had about 500 rounds through the 4" GP100 I bought a few months ago, and I've noticed something.

at 10 yards a lot of ammo I shoot in this revolver seems to shoot high. I've having trouble finding a cartridge that shoots flatter.

PMC .38 spl +p and Remington Golden Saber, both JHP rounds, seem to do best.

The sights are adjustable sights and it seems like as soon as I get the gun sighted in to shoot flat for the indoor shooting I do, I try something else and the POI shifts. I knew it could happen but I guess I didn't realize how much it can shift at close range.

Anyone else have a preferred brand of decent .357/.38 range ammo that they like for consistency? Would a gun with a longer barrel mitigate the variances in accuracy of the ammo load itself?

American handguns are factory designed for the common loading at 25yds. 25 meters for europa types.

Find a basic 158gr 38spcl and try it at 25yds.
Find some 158gr 357 and compare it at the same range. They should be damn close poa/poi.

Have you run out of "up" on the rear sight? Put front sight deeper in the bucket and test again. Sight picture thing.

[golfish]

This is a pretty good read. Not exactly what your looking for. The part about pocketing their empty brass says a lot about bad habits..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_incident

[plumbum]

Pick one brand/load that accomplishes what you are looking for, then adjust sights to regulate them for said load.
The rest is just plinking.

For instance, my “go-to” load for my .357 is actually Remington .38 special +P 125 grain green box loads - I shoot a ton of them and they shoot to my POA nearly identical to the golden sabers that I leave it load d with.

[sbo80]

sight it in for one load, and who cares how the POI shifts for other loads? If you aren't shooting bullseye, just plinking at the range I'd just run with it. Pick a different paper target that cares less if you are 2" high. Expecting two very different ammo types to POI the same isn't realistic.

[hermosabeach]

Light fast bullets will group lower than a heavy slow bullet


Are you concerned about accuracy- a tight group or about where different loads will land on the target

[hermosabeach]

Flat tends to be about velocity - how much a bullet drops over distance. For the 1st 50-75 yards, the bullet is still rising on many handguns

Accurate tends to be about the size of the group.

At 10 yards, I don’t notice a shift in point of impact for most bullet weights
If I load some mild .38 and hot .357, the two groups are not much apart.

With slow fire and one Ammo, what size group are you getting at 10 yards?

[B2D]

sight it in for one load, and who cares how the POI shifts for other loads? If you aren't shooting bullseye, just plinking at the range I'd just run with it. Pick a different paper target that cares less if you are 2" high. Expecting two very different ammo types to POI the same isn't realistic.

I like tight groups where POA/POI are the same.

Thanks for the patience... I'm still re-learning about this type of ballistics after getting back into shooting after a hiatus.

Light fast bullets will group lower than a heavy slow bullet

Are you concerned about accuracy- a tight group or about where different loads will land on the target

Yes, I like tight groups.

I would think heavy and slow would group lower... how and why does bullet rise happen?

Slow fire and one type of ammo, if I'm real careful I'm getting about a 1.75" group at 10 yards with the occasional flyer, which is probably more my fault than the gun's.

[hermosabeach]

I can explain this better in person with some visuals

Let me try here

During firing there are two force vectors. One pushes back at the shooter - let’s call that straight back

The other lifts the barrel up- let’s call that up/ muzzle rise

(The chippa rhino has the barrel low to minimize the Up/ muzzle rise)

As a huge exaggeration -

Let’s say a 110 grain bullet takes 1/3 second to leave the barrel. It has less time to raise the muzzle up. A sharp snap recoil impulse

Let’s exaggerate again and say a heavy .158 grain bullet moves slower - say 2/3 second to leave the barrel. It has double the time to push against the shooter and double the time for the barrel to move Up.

The barrel moving up more results in a higher group




As a kid we always loaded 158 grain lead in 38/357

I picked up a box of 110 grain JHP bullets and loaded them to the max....


Cousins and I were shooting paper at 50 yards.
We were shocked at how much the 110 grains fell at 50 yards
We were shooting 4” and 6” barreled smiths and colts


Well the 110 max velocity were not falling faster than the slow 158 lead projectiles.

They grouped lower as they left the barrel much faster and the barrel was not UP as much as the slower 158 grain bullets.



If this makes sense - great

If not I can try to explain it a different way.

[B2D]

^^^ That does make sense, actually. Many thanks for the explanation.

I remember an instructor telling me about how felt recoil happens long after the bullet has left the barrel and is downrange, and how that related to the importance of trigger control and not flinching. That said, I guess I never thought about how the movement/recoil caused from the charge in the cartridge could move the firearm BEFORE it left the barrel.

You've taught me something new today. Thanks!