Locked firearm and ammo in the same bag?

[dtang16]

Just got my first firearm and practicing at the local range.

I understand that CA gun laws dictate that magazines and firearm must NOT be loaded with ammo when being transported.

So, is it legal if I were to lock my firearm (like in the photo), have unloaded magazines, and ammo in the same locked bag? Would this need to be in the trunk of the car, or is a locked bag in the back seat permissible as well?

IMG_20200419_181714.jpg

[Canucky]

As far as I remember. Mags loaded outside the pistol too.

[Snoopy47]

Being required to unload the magazines is new to me. Can someone cite the penal code?

Last I knew, only the firearm itself must be unloaded. It could be sitting on a bed of loaded magazines in a locked box.

[Garv]

https://caligunner.com/legally-transporting-guns-in-california/

[CHEONG_FUN]

PPQ Q5 as your first firearm? Must be nice haha. Nice pick up.

Separate the mags from firearm and you should be good.
Use your trunk if you have one.

Edit:

In a locked container is what I supposed to write.

[CessnaDriver]

Being required to unload the magazines is new to me. Can someone cite the penal code?

Last I knew, only the firearm itself must be unloaded. It could be sitting on a bed of loaded magazines in a locked box.

This

The cable through the magwell isn't what California wants.
You need a secure locked container.
It can be a cloth container as long as it locks securely.
What secure means isn't particularly made clear.

"Penal Code Section 12026.1 defines "locked container" as a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. Locked container does not include the glove compartment or utility compartment. Ammunition cannot be attached to the handgun in any manner."

[dtang16]

Thanks for the clarifications!

PPQ Q5 as your first firearm? Must be nice haha. Nice pick up.

Separate the mags from firearm and you should be good.
Use your trunk if you have one.

I have a membership at a local range where I can rent a variety of on-roster handguns, so I wanted something that I can't easily obtain.

This

The cable through the magwell isn't what California wants.
You need a secure locked container.
It can be a cloth container as long as it locks securely.
What secure means isn't particularly made clear.

"Penal Code Section 12026.1 defines "locked container" as a secure container that is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. Locked container does not include the glove compartment or utility compartment. Ammunition cannot be attached to the handgun in any manner."

As long as ammunition isn't attached to the firearm, I'll be fine. Great! I'll get a lock for the bag as well.

[RickD427]

Just got my first firearm and practicing at the local range.

I understand that CA gun laws dictate that magazines and firearm must NOT be loaded with ammo when being transported.

So, is it legal if I were to lock my firearm (like in the photo), have unloaded magazines, and ammo in the same locked bag? Would this need to be in the trunk of the car, or is a locked bag in the back seat permissible as well?

[ATTACH]891069[/ATTACH]

Please keep in mind that California has two different definitions of when a firearm is "Loaded."

The general definition is found in Penal Code section 16840(b)(1) and was further clarified in People v Clark. That only requires that there be no ammunition within or attached to the weapon. Please note that People v Clark however held that shotgun rounds attached to a buttstock holder did not make the weapon loaded. Under the general definition, there is no need to unload magazines so long as the magazines are not inserted in the weapon. There is also nothing in the general definition that requires the ammunition be stored in a separate locked container.

The specific definition is found in Penal Code section 16840(a), and also in section 171e. The specific definition applies only when the weapon is possessed under certain circumstances, or in certain places. Under the specific definition, a weapon is loaded whenever the ammunition is in the immediate possession of the person possessing the weapon. Under the specific definition, even if you have the weapon and ammunition in separate locked containers, there weapon is still loaded so long as both containers are in your immediate possession.

I'll also second the observation already made that the cable lock doesn't do anything for you with regard to California law. It's the container that must be locked.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

I put the pistol in a lockable sleeve and put that in the main compartment of my small range bag along with a few boxes of ammo, hearing and eye protection, and a basic first aid kit, and then use another lock to secure the main compartment. The loaded magazines go in an outside compartment of the bag along with masking tape and some Shoot-N-C targets, separate from everything the main compartment, so technically the firearm and loaded mags are separated from each other, plus to get to the firearm you'd have to remove 2 locks, one to get into the main compartment and another to open the sleeve the firearm is in. My vehicle doesn't have a trunk (Subaru wagon) so the range bag is stored back in the cargo area.

Anyone with a pair of wire cutters could easily cut the TSA locks or cut through the range bag and pistol sleeve with a knife, but it's all legal.

This is a picture of the sleeve I use:

[rodralig]

PPQ Q5 as your first firearm? Must be nice haha. Nice pick up.

Separate the mags from firearm and you should be good.
Use your trunk if you have one.

Edit:

In a locked container is what I supposed to write.

Wow! OP will now have a hard time finding nicer guns in what is remaining in our Roster, would now need to go through PPT for building the collection.



For me - just to avoid confusion/complications and/or potential arguments with LEOs, I just have the unloaded gun and an unloaded magazine locked in a case. Ammo is locked in a separate range bag. They BOTH go in the trunk.


_

[Coffeeandgunsandammo]

https://youtu.be/QI9RaMgkpMo

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[Scratch705]

PPQ Q5 as your first firearm? Must be nice haha. Nice pick up.

Haha that was my first thought too. First gun and it is a ppq q5.

[Librarian]

See also the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e=Transporting

[M1NM]

Gun does not have to be locked if in trunk. Mags can be loaded. Empty mag can be in gun. Unloaded gun can be in the interior of the car if you have the case itself locked - same mag rules.

[dtang16]

Haha that was my first thought too. First gun and it is a ppq q5.

I've been taking advantage of the free gun rentals with my gun range membership, so I've been shooting most of the common pistols (Glock, CZ, M&P, Beretta) for a good 2 months before I settled with this Walther.

OP will now have a hard time finding nicer guns in what is remaining in our Roster, would now need to go through PPT for building the collection.


For me - just to avoid confusion/complications and/or potential arguments with LEOs, I just have the unloaded gun and an unloaded magazine locked in a case. Ammo is locked in a separate range bag. They BOTH go in the trunk.

I got lucky with a very pleasant PPT with another Calgunner here.

I'll err on the side of caution and just have magazines unloaded; but thanks to everyone here, I'll put everything in one bag and make sure it's locked.