Oregon resident w/question re: CA DOJ gun registration

[PDX1953]

Hi - My son lives in Sacramento & over the last 5 years I've given him a number of guns from my collection. They've all been registered via the Intra Familial process and he has documents from the DOJ showing him as the owner.

He'd like to give me back one of his guns & here in America he could personally ship a firearm to any FFL in the country. I'm recommending that he ship it to my FFL via a CA FFL but a big question remains: how is the gun "unregistered" from his DOJ file? I spoke to a dealer in CA & he recommended creating a CFARS account but after scanning that document it seems to be strictly related to scary black guns & that's not what he's giving to me.

Has anyone had experience with this process & does the DOJ actually update his file showing he no longer owns the firearm? As a side note if you do a P2P sale via your local FFL is it 'delisted' from you when it's transferred?

Per the ATF he could just hand it to me because it's a gift and I could bring it home because OR doesn't require registration of firearms although the Libtards are trying to change that. I've read quite a bit about CA gun laws (my heart bleeds for all of you) but haven't been able to get a firm answer. Trying to actually speak to a human at DOJ is an exercise in futility and they don't even return emails.

Any help / sound advice is appreciated & thanks in advance.

[Quiet]

Since 1968, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different States unless a FFL is utilized. [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]
There is no intra-familial or gift exemption to the Federal laws.
There is a bequest/inheritance exemption to the Federal laws, but it requires the giver to be deceased and the receiver to be listed in the deceased's will as the recipient of the firearms. [18 USC 922(a)(3)(A)&(5)(A)]
Failure to utilize a FFL equates to a Federal felony for everyone involved with the transfer. [18 USC 924(a)(1)(D)]

Therefore in accordance with Federal, CA, and OR laws...
1. Your son will need to ship the firearm to a OR FFL dealer.
2. That OR FFL dealer will then transfer the firearm to you.


The CA firearm registration system is a historical database that tracks the history of a firearm.

No firearm registration record gets removed from the registration database.

After it is transferred to you in OR, your son can submit a No Longer in Possession form to CA DOJ.
^He will need to input your name & info and the OR FFL dealer's info.
However, the only thing this does is modify the firearm's record to indicate that he is now the former owner, you are now the new owner, and it is located in OR.

[PDX1953]

"Since 1968, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different States unless a FFL is utilized. [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]"

A couple of years ago I spoke to ATF Agents located in six different offices around the country, including two of them in CA. With the exception of the Sacramento & LA offices I picked the other four cities at random and asked an Agent this question: "I live in Oregon & my son lives in CA. I want to give him some of my guns so are there any prohibitions against me transporting them across state lines?" The answer was always the same "Not if you're giving them to him as gifts."

When I spoke to the Agents in CA I informed them the guns would be transferred via the CA DOJ Intra Familial process but they said they didn't care because it was a state issue. One CA Agent told me his Father gave him quite a few guns & I jokingly said, "You're going to register them, correct?" His answer was "Oh Hell no!"

"After it is transferred to you in OR, your son can submit a No Longer in Possession form to CA DOJ. He will need to input your name & info and the OR FFL dealer's info. However, the only thing this does is modify the firearm's record to indicate that he is now the former owner, you are now the new owner, and it is located in OR."

This answers my question about how the CA DOJ database is updated & we'll use my local FFL & my son can notify DOJ via the method above and I really appreciate your knowledge in this matter.

Oregon doesn't use NICS - they run a BGC through the Oregon State Police and by law the transaction records can't be held for more than five years so every month records from 4 years - 11 months ago are purged. I belong to a NW Firearms forum & a long time member said he'd recently been denied. When asked if he'd purchased a gun via a 4473 within the past five years he said 'No' and the general consensus was that's why he'd been denied - he was no longer in the OSP database. The OSP has 3 business days to approve or deny the transaction & if they don't respond (which is normal) the FFL has the discretion to transfer the gun or not. If a person is known to the FFL or has an OR CHL they walk out the door with their gun. It's common here for us to have OR, UT & AZ permits because with reciprocity we're covered in 40 states but not in CA - of course.

[ugimports]

You may want to read this:

https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.

Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.

[Librarian]

"Since 1968, Federal laws have prohibited the transfer of firearms between residents of different States unless a FFL is utilized. [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]"

A couple of years ago I spoke to ATF Agents located in six different offices around the country, including two of them in CA. With the exception of the Sacramento & LA offices I picked the other four cities at random and asked an Agent this question: "I live in Oregon & my son lives in CA. I want to give him some of my guns so are there any prohibitions against me transporting them across state lines?" The answer was always the same "Not if you're giving them to him as gifts."

I just love it; it's a bit understandable if they don't 'get' state laws, but not knowing the Federal laws they are charged to enforce is always disappointing.

When I spoke to the Agents in CA I informed them the guns would be transferred via the CA DOJ Intra Familial process but they said they didn't care because it was a state issue. One CA Agent told me his Father gave him quite a few guns & I jokingly said, "You're going to register them, correct?" His answer was "Oh Hell no!"

... and it's always encouraging when a Federal LE agent admits to planning to commit multiple state misdemeanors, to go with the multiple Federal felonies.

...

Oregon doesn't use NICS - they run a BGC through the Oregon State Police and by law the transaction records can't be held for more than five years so every month records from 4 years - 11 months ago are purged. I belong to a NW Firearms forum & a long time member said he'd recently been denied. When asked if he'd purchased a gun via a 4473 within the past five years he said 'No' and the general consensus was that's why he'd been denied - he was no longer in the OSP database. The OSP has 3 business days to approve or deny the transaction & if they don't respond (which is normal) the FFL has the discretion to transfer the gun or not.

? then how does a new resident buy a gun? Such new residents will not yet be in the OSP database...

[colossians323]

Funny, was at an Oregon gun show today and bought (3) mp5 LEO restricted magazines for $50.00 ea

There was only one booth with gold and silver, and one booth with jerky and candy, the rest were all guns, ammo, gun parts, and knives

[PDX1953]

Funny, was at an Oregon gun show today and bought (3) mp5 LEO restricted magazines for $50.00 ea

There was only one booth with gold and silver, and one booth with jerky and candy, the rest were all guns, ammo, gun parts, and knives

For the most part the gun shows in OR suck. Especially the big one's at the Expo Center near Delta Park. I stopped going years ago.

[edgerly779]

Hopefully you used ffl to transfer to son. If not then you are lucky to still be able to own them

[PDX1953]

? then how does a new resident buy a gun? Such new residents will not yet be in the OSP database...

After you've established permanent residency & have an OR DL your first purchase will most likely be delayed up to three days but after that it's not a problem. Since it's up to the FFL to hand you the gun or not if you have a permit from your prior state it's not an issue.


I don't believe you have to be a resident of OR for xx days because my Nephew moved from WA & two weeks later got his OR DL, went directly to our LGS, had to wait three days but after that no problems. We live in a small town - the DMV & LGS are only about 1/4 mile apart. Unfortunately this state is run by Dems and they concentrated in 3 counties near Portland.

What I think is hilarious is that a State Rep who lives in Lane County is one of the loudest anti 2A people around. A couple of years ago he managed to get a Bill passed that required all P2P transfers to use an FFL unless it was between relatives.

34 of our 36 County Sheriffs were opposed to the law & the Lane County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution permanently blocking any County funds for enforcing the law. Another much more Conservative County made it a crime for any LEO to even attempt to enforce the law and/or to assist ATF in an investigation. I'm sure they'd make exemptions in some instances but it was a giant middle finger to "the man."

Welcome to a State where we still have a few rights although our elected officials are trying to take away of them they can get their grubby mitts on.

[PDX1953]

Hopefully you used ffl to transfer to son. If not then you are lucky to still be able to own them

No FFL when they were given as gifts and most CA FFLs don't want to get involved with one. My son followed the law by registering them via the CA http://Intrafamilia process which doesn't even ask the name of the giver, only the relationship which must be a direct line relative. I can't give one to my step-grandson but can give one to my grandson. Once it's registered my grandson can give it to his brother via a Person to Person transfer at an FFL.

[ugimports]

No FFL when they were given as gifts and most CA FFLs don't want to get involved with one. My son followed the law by registering them via the CA http://Intrafamilia process which doesn't even ask the name of the giver, only the relationship which must be a direct line relative. I can't give one to my step-grandson but can give one to my grandson. Once it's registered my grandson can give it to his brother via a Person to Person transfer at an FFL.

The bolded according to ATF is illegal (or at least was as of 2013 when this was created).
You may want to read this:

https://www.atf.gov/file/58681/download

An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.

Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.

More current info here: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom...arms-under-gca

Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) within the transferee’s State of residence. The transferee may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.

Relevant federal code:
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(5) and 922(d); 27 CFR 478.30, 478.32]

[Milsurp1]

Federal felony. I had a gun stored at my home in the Midwest years ago, and when I moved to another state I left it with my dad (legal there). Ten years later to take possession of the gun I had owned all along I was required to use an FFL in my state of residence. The federal laws focus on possession not ownership. Hopefully the statute of limitations has run on those interstate transfers now that it is posted on the internet, on a site frequently read by government and by anti-2A groups.

[PDX1953]

I found the answer to my question regarding how my son notifies CA DOJ the gun is no longer in CA and I appreciate that.

I'm done with any further discussions & hope someday CA residents enjoy the 2A freedoms I do.