Camping Warning - Joshua Tree

[Sputnik]

only "Tweakers" drive around at those hours looking for scrap / or to steal

I have a homeless camp near my area , and they never go to sleep, you can see them moving around , hammering things, digging cr@p holes for human waste, burning garbage, driving in and out all through the night, almost like rats, vermin.

Almost?

[floogy]

Violent crime down = Liberal lie.

[deckhandmike]

Dealing with “crowd control” in the dark is another complex layer to self defense. Well done. That’s not a easy scenario.

[splithoof]

Thank you for sharing OP. I live out here in the Coachella Valley and you hear stories of people's cars getting broken into near the trailheads, especially towards the East Valley. Considered a day trip to Joshua Tree with my girlfriend later this year and don't plan to spend the night out there.

It's almost to the point that everywhere you go, you have to bring someone along who will provide over watch for your vehicles, campsite, and anything else of value, just so you have peace of mind while out enjoying your chosen activities.

[gforce357]

Thank you OP for posting, and I am happy you and yours were safe.
You handled it better than most given the circumstances. All that matters is that you protected your family, and you learned some valuable life lessons... which you shared with us.

[Usmc0844spare]

I wasn't initially going to post this, but a thread about a guy killed while breaking into a tent and another article today about a woman missing while going camping made me rethink it and post it as a warning to others who go into remote areas.

Two weeks back, on Tuesday the 25th, I went camping with two friends with whom we often do "dads and daughters" activities. We had six kids with us total, including my two daughters and their friend who was tagging along. We went to Indian Cove camping grounds by Twentynine Palms and had one of the group sites, set up two tents and one camper. I was in one tent with my daughter and her friend, my other daughter was with her friend in another tent and the third dad was in the camper with his son.

The first night, at about 1:45 am, I was woken up by loud voice from the dad in the camper talking to someone very loudly, along the lines: "Who are you? This is a private camp ground. What are you doing here?" Then, he called the two of us by name and yelled that we have company and to come out of our tents. So, I grabbed my gun, HK USP 9c, that was in my Agis holster by Tier 1 Concealed (my CCW rig) by my side next to my sleeping bag and went out. I normally keep it where my outstretched arm is if I lay on my back, so it's not in the way, but if I'm startled, it's where I would naturally be looking for a gun. I always keep it in a holster so that the trigger guard is fully covered, the way I would keep it on my belt. The whole setup goes from my belt to the ground next to me, then back to the belt. My friend also had a gun, a Ruger in 380 (not sure if it's LC380, but along those lines) and he came out with the gun drawn.

With no shoes and just in boxers the two of us stepped out, took standing cover behind the large bushes and started walking towards the commotion while looking around for any additional people. I was whispering to my friend to take better cover (he is way less experienced), to keep quiet and not to use a flashlight to look at the ground - the moon was enough and the flashlight is to illuminate the intruder. He managed to yell at the guy that he needed to leave and that we were armed and ready to defend, so after several cuss words and a sort-of explanation that he was only looking for recyclables, he got back into his car and left.

We don't know whether he was armed and what his real intent was. My friend who woke up first and confronted the guy says that he was driving very slowly and stopping, consistent with casing the campsite. Was it just to steal things? Maybe. It's tough to judge when you're startled in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. He didn't leave immediately when confronted and only left after all three of us where out there.

After he left, I took a flashlight and cleared the area around the campsite, then drove in both directions while searching the sides of the road with the flashlight to see if he parked anywhere in the vicinity. He was gone.

The kids were a bit scared, so we had to explain to them that it was under control and that we were safe and ready. It was a good experience for them to see a confrontation that was resolved without having to use excessive force, but also to know that the force was there for protection if things escalated.

As for me, it made me think about all the mistakes that we made as a group. While I was completely prepared to draw and fire from the low ready with the gun in the holster, and had no concerns about being able to execute mechanics (I shoot USPSA) and hit the target under pressure, I was not prepared (enough) to take control of the overall situation - coordinate my friends, secure kids and campground, etc. I played it by ear and it all looked good in the end, but it was improvising on the spot and not something that I could do subconsciously the way I could draw, shoot and manipulate my gun. So, I will look at some (gasp) tactical training to make sure I know the basics of how to handle these types of situations. Not about shooting and gun handling, but about dealing with real-life situations with multiple people.

The reason I'm posting this is to give the rest of the community a heads-up that we live in a society where the norms are breaking down and we can all run into people that think it's a good idea to approach a campsite at 2 AM. It's also an example of a situation where the gun was used for protection without shots fired and without all the usual bravado and drama - the goal was to have the intruder leave and search for easier targets.

On the positive note, when I got back from clearing the road, I got to see a fox leaving our campgrounds after munching on some of the kids' leftovers (a separate discussion altogether with the kids).

You know, one thing struck me. What if you get into a situation like this where they WILL NOT LEAVE, even when confronted with armed people? I can see myself saying "get the F outa here" and them saying "no" and continuing to encroach on the belief that you won't shoot them.

I bet this sort of thing happens a lot where armed people get taken down because criminals know citizens are sort of primed NOT to shoot.

I guess you would have to almost literally draw a line in the sand and say "if you cross this threshold you are getting a bullet" or something.

[Sousuke]

What is the current lay of the land as far as being armed in state or federal parks?

LONG before CA started going "left of Fidel" I camped with a pistol once or twice. I've not backpacked since.

I would prefer not to open carry, but I would assume that carrying it in my backpack would probably constitute concealed carry, so that seems to be out.

I'd like to think that in general, the further you backpack in, the lower the chance of running into dirt-bags, since they are inherently lazy, but there are always exceptions.

In both you may have a firearm at your personal campsite. National park it can be loaded. State park - not readily accessible.

In terms of backpacking, I think you could keep it in your bag unloaded and locked and then wherever you set up for the night, take it out and load in a NP.

[Jeepergeo]

Note to Self: Stay away from Indian Cove campground...

This will not help. Good folks need to take it back.

[Featureless]

We camped at Indian Cove in the 70s and 80s. I remember a specific weekend we were there when a young child was abducted. They found her scull in the desert years later.

http://www.hidesertstar.com/news/article_32b51599-2916-57d2-9dad-42a1d937c9f7.html

We never went back.

The hottest place in hell is not hot enough and eternity is not long enough for predators like this.

[200Apples]

So who are the _____ poking fun at the OP's description of a bad night?

This isn't facebook, so, stfu.

Thanks IVC for posting. Your experience and your perspective are always helpful.

splithoof

It's almost to the point that everywhere you go, you have to bring someone along who will provide over watch for your vehicles, campsite, and anything else of value, just so you have peace of mind while out enjoying your chosen activities.

That's how I feel about it. In fact, I don't want to leave my truck unattended, which has limited my planned activities to two criteria:

1. Park truck where I can shoot from the tailgate area.

2. Camp where I can park truck and shoot from the tailgate area.




This limits my activities to BLM land, and it's not always allowed to camp overnight except in dispersed camping areas.

[loademup]

May we say that a stranger barging into one's campsite late at night as in OP's situation is like a stranger barging into your home at night? I can sense the tenseness of such a situation for OP and his family.

[200Apples]

^ ^ ^ That's correct.

Even in the Old Days, a (horseback) rider NEVER just strolled into an unknown campsite without hollering first, "Hallo-o-o the camp!" unless they had a death wish.

Good manners is good manners.

[Sousuke]

As a kid camping with my parents, we had a few randoms wander up. Either trying to get in to the tent or tripping on guy wires. They were always drunk people. Sometimes they got their tent confused.

This wasn't California though, it was the midwest.

[elSquid]

You know, one thing struck me. What if you get into a situation like this where they WILL NOT LEAVE, even when confronted with armed people? I can see myself saying "get the F outa here" and them saying "no" and continuing to encroach on the belief that you won't shoot them.

I bet this sort of thing happens a lot where armed people get taken down because criminals know citizens are sort of primed NOT to shoot.

I guess you would have to almost literally draw a line in the sand and say "if you cross this threshold you are getting a bullet" or something.

If things get uncomfortable enough, it's probably time to load up and retreat. Have the armed person(s) keep their attention on the bad guy(s), have everyone else chuck all the gear into the vehicles/pack up.

It's not a "heroic/cool/etc" thing to say, but the question is: what is important?

Keep the kids safe, and avoid getting into a gunfight/shooting if at all possible.

You can be in the right, legally speaking, and still be "victimized" by both the criminal and civil legal system. Shelling out tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for lawyers, and possibly a year or two of stress? No thanks.

As well, say you have a similar confrontation and the guy leaves. Who is to say that he won't come back? Or maybe decide to snipe at the party with a 22 from standoff? Or...? Crazy/psycho people are crazy/psycho.

It's probably excessive... but I'd be tempted to move camp/leave. As the saying goes, it's not the odds, but rather the stakes. Better to have a "ruined" camping weekend than some possible bad alternatives.

I think that the OP's decision to take a drive and confirm that the bad guy left the area was a smart thing to do.

-- Micvhael

[357manny]

I'd rather be alive to face the charges of bringing a firearm into a state park than be dead with the engraving on my headstone reading "He always followed every law to a tee."

I bet Tristan Beaudette would agree with me.

If it's buried in your backpack, who's to know?

Didn't know the story on Mr. Beaudette--a quick lookup and Omg, horrible horrible sad story. Poor family.

Calguns folks, do *not* allow what happened to Mr. Beaudette, happen to you.



Separate question: If you go to a campsite, not in the National Park service, or the State Parks--say, the Santa Cruz KOA campgrounds, would this also be a candidate for bringing camping protection? Where does one of these campsites fit in the scheme of legal carrying of firearms? Would I need to just pack the ammo in a locked container?