VFG on Non-NFA Firearm = No maglock required

[WellRegulated]

I saw a thread on Reddit where people were discussing the legality of having a VFG on their pistol with a 12" barrel. Because it is under a 16" barrel, it's not a rifle. Because it has a brace and not a stock, it's not an SBR. Because it has a VFG but the OAL is greater than 26", it's not an SBR or a pistol, it's a "firearm" with no category to fall into. In a recent opinion letter, the ATF has stated that they're now measuring the OAL without the brace since it is an accessory not necessary to the function of the firearm and technically, for the sake of measuring conceal-ability, the gun can operate without it. From a CA "assault weapon" standpoint, it doesn't meet any of the legal definitions which apply specifically to centerfire rifles and "assault pistols" because it is neither a rifle nor a pistol.

Here is an example of a firearm that is being sold in New Jersey (who also has strict gun laws) that serves as an example. Pistol brace, VFG, 12" barrel: https://shop.oceanarmory.com/product...s-tactical-741

Am I overlooking something here? I feel like there has to be something I am overlooking that would apply to this to make it illegal in CA..

[elSquid]

Iirc, this is like Franklin's xo-26. Lots of threads if you do a search here.

( I never paid close enough attention to be up to speed on the legalities of such firearms. )

-- Michael

[Quiet]

I saw a thread on Reddit where people were discussing the legality of having a VFG on their pistol with a 12" barrel. Because it is under a 16" barrel, it's not a rifle. Because it has a brace and not a stock, it's not an SBR. Because it has a VFG but the OAL is greater than 26", it's not an SBR or a pistol, it's a "firearm" with no category to fall into. In a recent opinion letter, the ATF has stated that they're now measuring the OAL without the brace since it is an accessory not necessary to the function of the firearm and technically, for the sake of measuring conceal-ability, the gun can operate without it. From a CA "assault weapon" standpoint, it doesn't meet any of the legal definitions which apply specifically to centerfire rifles and "assault pistols" because it is neither a rifle nor a pistol.

Here is an example of a firearm that is being sold in New Jersey (who also has strict gun laws) that serves as an example. Pistol brace, VFG, 12" barrel: https://shop.oceanarmory.com/product...s-tactical-741

Am I overlooking something here? I feel like there has to be something I am overlooking that would apply to this to make it illegal in CA..

CA does not have an "other" category.

CA only has "handgun" and "long gun".

A firearm with a less than 16" barrel is a "handgun".
~It needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for handguns, CA unsafe handgun laws, CA unconventional pistol laws, and CA SBR/SBS laws.

A firearm that is not a "handgun" is a "long gun".
~If the semi-auto firearm has a rifled barrel, then it needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for rifles and CA SBR laws.
~If the semi-auto firearm has a smoothbore barrel and can shoot shotgun shells, then it needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for shotguns and CA SBS laws.


The firearm you described would be classified as a "handgun" under CA laws/regulations.
~Because an AR style firearm accepts magazines outside of it's grip, if it is semi-auto, then it must have a fixed 10 or less round magazine to be CA legal.
~If the firearm is not semi-auto, then it can legally utilize detachable magazines and have features that are restricted on semi-auto handguns.
~Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, some CA DA's Offices may consider an arm stablizing brace to be a shoulder stock. Which would change the classification to a SBR/SBS. YMMV, depending on the viewpoint of the CA LE agencies and CA DA's Office that encounters the firearm.

[jagrjones]

CA does not have an "other" category.

CA only has "handgun" and "long gun".

A firearm with a less than 16" barrel is a "handgun".
~It needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for handguns, CA unsafe handgun laws, CA unconventional pistol laws, and CA SBR/SBS laws.

A firearm that is not a "handgun" is a "long gun".
~If the semi-auto firearm has a rifled barrel, then it needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for rifles and CA SBR laws.
~If the semi-auto firearm has a smoothbore barrel and can shoot shotgun shells, then it needs to comply with CA assault weapons laws for shotguns and CA SBS laws.


The firearm you described would be classified as a "handgun" under CA laws/regulations.
~Because an AR style firearm accepts magazines outside of it's grip, if it is semi-auto, then it must have a fixed 10 or less round magazine to be CA legal.
~If the firearm is not semi-auto, then it can legally utilize detachable magazines and have features that are restricted on semi-auto handguns.
~Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, some CA DA's Offices may consider an arm stablizing brace to be a shoulder stock. Which would change the classification to a SBR/SBS. YMMV, depending on the viewpoint of the CA LE agencies and CA DA's Office that encounters the firearm.

Quiet,

Would a firearm with a 16inch rifled barrel but no stock (ar-style with buffer tube only... no brace or stock) need to have a mag lock? Wouldn't this be a "long gun" but not a "rifle" or a "shotgun"?

[autoduel]

California has it's own definition of pistol.

Cal Pen
16530.
(a) As used in this part, the terms “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” and “revolver” apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “firearm capable of being concealed upon the person,” “pistol,” or “revolver” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

[floogy]

Quiet,

Would a firearm with a 16inch rifled barrel but no stock (ar-style with buffer tube only... no brace or stock) need to have a mag lock? Wouldn't this be a "long gun" but not a "rifle" or a "shotgun"?

The problem is that it can't have any evil features. If it's a "pistol", it can't have a mag outside the grip or barrel shroud, threaded barrel etc. If it's a "rifle" then it can't have a pistol grip or flash hider. So it would end up being a featureless rifle with no stock.

There's really no 26" OAL exemption in CA for "firearms". You can own an AOW here, but that's a smoothbore non-SBS pump action.