Should I Be Pissed?

[mydogsmonkey]

okay so i gotta gunsmith story for you guys and wanted your opinion and since i know how oyu guys hate when people leave out the names i'll tell you which one.

so i took in my FN PBR to Bain and Davis in San Gabriel today to get my rifle boresighted and looked over so that i could zero it in at the range since i could'nt figure it out for the life of me. so i took it over. now note that i have a shim between my scope base and receiver. so i took it in and they boresighted it for me. i told one of the people there that i have a shim in there. he explained that he never used any shims so i said okay and to trying to boresight it without shims. so he goes inside, and sounds like he understands what im talking about. he comes out a bit later and tells me that it didn't boresight without the shim. then the gunsmith comes out and tells me my rings are too high up so i should get lower ones. (i don't think he knew i told the first guy about the shims) so then i take it home thinking im good and i come home and there are still is the shim i put in there originally. now i bought THEIR rings and service so that i would avoid using shims in the first place but now they are still using it for this rifle. if i wanted it to be sighted in with the shim, i would've stayed with my orignal rings and shim since they were able to sight it in correctly with that set up. now im thinking they never even tried to take off the shim and bore sight it. how would you feel? i know this is a respectable business but i feel like they were trying to pull something on me.

[Turbinator]

Well, I'm not sure if you should be pissed, but in all my reading around scopes, I was rather surprised to find that shims are a pretty widely accepted way to get a scope to zero if your setup requires it.

Turby

[Experimentalist]

Sounds like a misunderstanding.

I'd go back and politely explain the situation. If they have any business sense they will explain why it should be the way it is, and / or make it right.

[damon1272]

If the gun needs shims to get the scope on target I would look to send it back to the manufacturer as the receiver was not drilled properly or the receiver was not machined correctly. I ran into teh same issue with a Cooper rifle. The only thing that would get the scope to align was Burris rings (the ones with the shims). Cooper replaced the receiver but it took them six months.

[mydogsmonkey]

i definately don't wanna send back the gun, it seems great. they basically told me they'd try to get it able to boresight correctly without shims so i assumed we came to the undertanding that i would rather not use shims and that there were in fact shims under there. the fact they never found it and tried to sell me something to fix the problem they never found brings their business sense into question.

[EricGsmith]

I would like to take the time to explain what happened here. I have first hand knowledge because I am the gunsmith that came out to talk with you. When the rifle was first brought to me, I was told it was not even hitting the paper. I bore sighted the rifle as is and found that the scope was way too high. With the high base and the high rings, the scope would never be on, shim or no shim. I recommended the low rings because as we all know, the closer you can get your scope to the bore without touching the barrel, the better off you are. As far as the shim goes, I'm not sure why it was placed under the base from the start, however it was not needed. I always try and get a rifle to bore sight without the use of shims as I feel it is a better way to go. With all that said, I hope you feel that you were not ripped off. Also please know that if you ever have a problem with work preformed at Bain & Davis do not hesitate to say so. I would have gladly talked with you about the decisions made. I hope that with the new rings you are now able to hit the target and make the final adjustments. It is a great rifle and I hope you enjoy shooting it!

Eric

[Matt C]

I was about to say that I'm sure this is a case of miscommunication, Bain & Davis is a great shop for non-evil-black-rifle stuff and I would vouch for them anytime. It looks like you already have a response right from them explaining the situation though.

Welcome to Calguns.net Eric, I hope you stick around!

-Matt (The guy that got arrested for 12 felonies but whose guns did not get traced)

[mydogsmonkey]

I would like to take the time to explain what happened here. I have first hand knowledge because I am the gunsmith that came out to talk with you. When the rifle was first brought to me, I was told it was not even hitting the paper. I bore sighted the rifle as is and found that the scope was way too high. With the high base and the high rings, the scope would never be on, shim or no shim. I recommended the low rings because as we all know, the closer you can get your scope to the bore without touching the barrel, the better off you are. As far as the shim goes, I'm not sure why it was placed under the base from the start, however it was not needed. I always try and get a rifle to bore sight without the use of shims as I feel it is a better way to go. With all that said, I hope you feel that you were not ripped off. Also please know that if you ever have a problem with work preformed at Bain & Davis do not hesitate to say so. I would have gladly talked with you about the decisions made. I hope that with the new rings you are now able to hit the target and make the final adjustments. It is a great rifle and I hope you enjoy shooting it!

Eric

hey eric, thanks for chiming in. honestly, i didn't have a problem with you at all. you did a great job and it turned out great after it was all said and done. i just questioned why the person who was dealing with it in the front told me it wouldn't boresight without the shim and then after i got all the work done, the shims were still there. i thought he said he was going to take them out. thats why i was a bit ticked off. i thought he knew what i was talking about since he never asked me where the shims were.

anyways to all those wondering, they did me right and got it all fixed at no charge. so after a few long trafic filled car rides back and forth, i got it done. even with the miscommunication, im still happy with the way it turned out and will be back.

[Beelzy]

i definately don't wanna send back the gun, it seems great. they basically told me they'd try to get it able to boresight correctly without shims so i assumed we came to the undertanding that i would rather not use shims and that there were in fact shims under there. the fact they never found it and tried to sell me something to fix the problem they never found brings their business sense into question.

You are correct, and you should be ticked off.

Somebody didn't listen, I mean HEAR you.

I run a business, and communication from start to finish should be paramount.

I may be wrong here, but I though one could order special ring mounts that
corrected for the use of shims. Warne maybe??

[mydogsmonkey]

You are correct, and you should be ticked off.

Somebody didn't listen, I mean HEAR you.

I run a business, and communication from start to finish should be paramount.

I may be wrong here, but I though one could order special ring mounts that
corrected for the use of shims. Warne maybe??

thats correct, i just believe the communication was a bit off from the person up front. the gunsmith here, eric, was great, i had no problems communicating with him.

beelzy i did get it corrected after heading over there again. thanks for the suggestion though

[tankerman]

Couple of things Mr.DogMonkey;

1)Bore sighting a boltgun is about the simplest thing going. Put your gun on the bench supported by a rest or sand bags. Pull-out bolt look down bore of barrel, adjust until bore is lined up on your target. Now adjust your scope until it's on the target as well. You should end up with the same sight picture on your scope as you see when looking through the bore.

2)If you were having problems sighting the rifle in and you put the rings on and shim yourself, maybe you should have considered asking the gunsmith for his opinion on how to fix the problem, because it sounds like you didn't understand the issue. Just because someone brings you a gun, with their parts doesn't mean they'll work properly on the gun.

[Greg-Dawg]

...With all that said, I hope you feel that you were not ripped off. Also please know that if you ever have a problem with work preformed at Bain & Davis do not hesitate to say so. I would have gladly talked with you about the decisions made....
Eric

Great customer service!!!

[mydogsmonkey]

Couple of things Mr.DogMonkey;

1)Bore sighting a boltgun is about the simplest thing going. Put your gun on the bench supported by a rest or sand bags. Pull-out bolt look down bore of barrel, adjust until bore is lined up on your target. Now adjust your scope until it's on the target as well. You should end up with the same sight picture on your scope as you see when looking through the bore.

2)If you were having problems sighting the rifle in and you put the rings on and shim yourself, maybe you should have considered asking the gunsmith for his opinion on how to fix the problem, because it sounds like you didn't understand the issue. Just because someone brings you a gun, with their parts doesn't mean they'll work properly on the gun.

and i understand that, the reason why i made this thread is that i questioned why i told the person up front about the shims, told him i didn't want them so make me a set up without it. the gunsmith came out and told me i needed new mounts. i said okay, but later found that the shims weren't taken out. i don't think the guy upfront knew what i was talking about when i said shims and he should have asked if he could'nt find it. personally, i think that guy just didn't feel like telling what i knew to the gunsmith and vice versa. i think it would've worked better if i just told the gunsmith everything. i assumed he already knew since i told the guy working at the counter

[tankerman]

Good lesson learned, if you have a gunsmithing question, speak to the Gunsmith, not the 'Counter Jockey'.

and i understand that, the reason why i made this thread is that i questioned why i told the person up front about the shims, told him i didn't want them so make me a set up without it. the gunsmith came out and told me i needed new mounts. i said okay, but later found that the shims weren't taken out. i don't think the guy upfront knew what i was talking about when i said shims and he should have asked if he could'nt find it. personally, i think that guy just didn't feel like telling what i knew to the gunsmith and vice versa. i think it would've worked better if i just told the gunsmith everything. i assumed he already knew since i told the guy working at the counter

[bsg]

you can speak directly to the gunsmith at bain and davis, including when you drop the gun off for repair. if you are not happy with results by all means speak with their gunsmith. i did have a strange experience which still makes me scratch my head.... i took my p225 there to have night sites installed. i took gun home and put it in safe. one month later i examined my gun and noticed the guide rod poking out of the muzzle. i talked with the gunsmith to ask if they had a guide rod for someone's gun that was too short! they didn't and the gunsmith was sure the wrong guide rod was not accidently installed by them; but it wasn't installed by me! so i ordered one up from top gun and put the correct one in when it arrived. i have since obtained a sig sight pusher of my own. i am not bashing bain and davis and i have found the folks there rather pleasant compared to most gun shops i have been to in recent years. an occasional good deal can be found there on a used gun as well. i must say the gunsmith was not "defensive" in his attitude with me about said issue; he was just sure it was not by his doing that the wrong guide rod was installed. i am using the mistakenly installed guide rod as a whistle.