Question on flash hiders

[9mmrevolver]

Today I was in a store inquiring about a Kel tec cmr. And was wondering if they would accept a disassembled one and have them bring the oal to 26 in. I told her that I wanted a 4 in flash hider blind pinned on. She said muzzle was okay but flash hiders were banned. I argued that was for center fire semi auto with detachable mags. She said they passed a law in 2014 banning them. I should have asked for the law so I could read it but forgot. Do you guys know of law that she might be talking about?

[Librarian]

Flash hiders are not banned, they're a 'feature' to create an 'assault weapon'.

PC 30515(a)(1)(E)

30515.

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:

...

(E) A flash suppressor.

...

[RickD427]

Today I was in a store inquiring about a Kel tec cmr. And was wondering if they would accept a disassembled one and have them bring the oal to 26 in. I told her that I wanted a 4 in flash hider blind pinned on. She said muzzle was okay but flash hiders were banned. I argued that was for center fire semi auto with detachable mags. She said they passed a law in 2014 banning them. I should have asked for the law so I could read it but forgot. Do you guys know of law that she might be talking about?

(Comments Deleted - Misfire on my part - Please see Post #8)

[Califpatriot]

She's full of nonsense. It's a non-listed rimfire with a 16" barrel and a stock, so it can't be an assault weapon. There's no ban on flash hiders, as librarian accurately points out. But if she won't do it, she won't do it. Find a better gun shop. If you say your general geographic area, we could probably tell you a number of suggestions.

Riflegear in fountain valley has them in stock, in legal confirguration, ready to DROS if you're in that area. Or you can order online, have them ship it to a transfer dealer if you're far (UGImports and Rob M. Blank are good and cheap in the Bay Area, so is 29Outdoors in Solano County, etc., there's many other good ones.) No need to deal with pinning and welding.

[RickD427]

She's full of nonsense. It's a non-listed rimfire with a 16" barrel and a stock, so it can't be an assault weapon. There's no ban on flash hiders, as librarian accurately points out. But if she won't do it, she won't do it. Find a better gun shop. If you say your general geographic area, we could probably tell you a number of suggestions.

Riflegear in fountain valley has them in stock, in legal confirguration, ready to DROS if you're in that area. Or you can order online, have them ship it to a transfer dealer if you're far (UGImports and Rob M. Blank are good and cheap in the Bay Area, so is 29Outdoors in Solano County, etc., there's many other good ones.) No need to deal with pinning and welding.

He's gonna have to deal with the pinning, or welding, or something that makes the attachment permanent.

He's legal having the flash hider on a rimfire rifle.

But he's not OK having a rifle that can be fired when its OAL is less than 26". That would be the case with the Kel-Tec if the flash hider was not permanently fixed. Being rimfire doesn't change anything on that point.

[boopiejones]

OK, I'm really confused here.

You wrote that you requested the store to accept a Kel-Tec CMR for you, disassembled, and then add a 4" flash hider to bring the OAL to 26". I am assuming that you're referring to the OAL with the stock collapsed and that you did this so that the weapon would be a Short Barreled Rifle under PC 17170? (Right?)

Then you wrote that the nice lady at the store refused, stating that flash hiders were banned in 2014. (Right?)

Then you wrote that you defended your request with the added information that the flash hider was for installation on a Center-fire rifle with a detachable magazine (Right?)

But the Kel-Tec CMR (the only version currently offered by Kel-Tec) is a .22WMR. (Right?)

So how is it that you wanted the shop to install the flash hider on a Rimfire weapon that was a Centerfire weapon?

It makes a big difference with regard to the Assault Weapon statutes.

[Cokebottle]

Correct.
But he can not import a rifle that has an OAL less than 26", even disassembled. The FFL can not accept it.
He needs to run it through an out of state middleman like Audiophil2 who can make it California-legal before shipping it into CA.

[RickD427]

OK, Thanks. I can see it. The post wasn't clear. I've edited my reply.

[9mmrevolver]

@rick. I haven’t purchased the rifle and was just getting info on a way to bring one into this state. What I wasn’t sure about is if it was legal for them to accept the rim fire rifle disassembled. It’s legal in other states for overall length but Cali measures with the stock collapsed.

I informed her of how I planned on having them do the work to have it brought up to 26 in instead of the rifles current overall length of 22.5 in. This plan was to blind pin a 4 in flash hider onto the disassembled rifle.

She informed me that flash hiders were illegal. I told her it’s a rimfire and the flash hider thing was for center fire semi auto with detachable mags. She said it’s for both becuase they banned flash hiders back in 2014. Which is where I just stopped talking. I wasn’t aware of that law and wanted to ask calguns if they have heard of it. Like I said before, I should have asked her what law it was but forgot to.

In her defense she has always been fairly knowledgeable in the past and this is the first time she’s stated something I didn’t agree with. Way more knowledgeable than any of the other gun shops in her town.

[9mmrevolver]

Correct.
But he can not import a rifle that has an OAL less than 26", even disassembled. The FFL can not accept it.
He needs to run it through an out of state middleman like Audiophil2 who can make it California-legal before shipping it into CA.

[Cokebottle]

An 07FFL may be able to receive it... I don't know if they need a DWP or not, but a shop with an employee who thinks that flash hiders were banned in 2014 would most likely not be able to do so.

[9mmrevolver]

So would it be okay to have just the barreled action sent and no stock?

[9mmrevolver]

@ califpatriot I generally shop black guns in sac area. How are they making the legal 26” oal. I don’t like the idea of pinning the stock. Although easier to do, it’s not the configuration I’d like to have.

[Quiet]

Use an out-of-state middleman FFL to make it CA legal (permanently attach the muzzle device to increase the overall length to 26" or greater with the stock folded/collapsed) prior to importing it to CA.

[RickD427]

I mis-read your original post. Now I have a better understanding of what you're trying to accomplish.

Even though I am now retired, I try to stay up on all of California's new laws. I haven't seen anything change regarding flash hiders. As you correctly pointed out to the shop, they're a defining feature on a center-fire weapon to make an assault weapon. They're legal as a component, and legal to install on a rimfire and centerfire rifles that are other than semi-auto.

Your issue is being able to satisfy the 26" OAL requirement since it looks like the Kel-Tec can be fired with the stock collapsed.

I'll defer to the FFL's on the forum, but you may also encounter some reluctance on the part of an FFL01 to provide the service that you requested. You may need an FFL07. Please check out the Seventh Circuit's decision in Broughman v Carver, particularly with its discussion on making a weapon ready for first use.