Delta and TSA

[Wallflood]

Greetings All
Flying again out of southern CA the Delta clerk was out of line not to mention disrespectful. I can deal with all that but the hurdle was her demand I have TSA approved locks on the outside of my roller pelican case. This is in fact wrong and against federal law.

I use metal locking gun cases for handguns then lock them inside the pelican case with standard over the counter padlocks. I've done this many times in many airports all across the country. I've never had a problem other than different clerks doing things a little differently from other clerks. It took 2 other clerks as well as a TSA agent to overrule her despite my explaining law to her.

Moral of the story: know laws and regulations when you fly, and stand your ground (while being polite and professional).

Have a great day-

[SISKIN]

Thanks for the heads up .... But i think California does not have a "STAND YOUR GROUND LAW"......heheheheh

[k1dude]

Every agent has their own idea of what the regs are. Often they'll invent their own. I found it's simply best to just agree that you've already done that with whatever they're requesting.

I used to travel with both the airline's regs and the TSA regs with me. But when you produce them, they dig-in and won't budge even when they know they're wrong. I can't tell you how many times I've been told they don't give a damn what the regs say, it's their way or the highway.

There's been more than one trip where they wouldn't budge on their fake regs and I had to take my gun back to my car and leave it for the trip. Fortunately, it was never a hunting trip.

[tonyxcom]

I think her confusion, which I find reasonable, is that you are locking the handgun in the non TSA-locked metal case, then placing that in the Pelican with non-TSA locks too. Did you have any other firearms in the Pelican case?

When I take my pistol in my checked luggage, I place it in a non-TSA locked metal case BUT my luggage has TSA locks as required per the regulations.

If there were no firearms outside of the metal case but inside of your pelican, I think it would be reasonable for her to expect TSA locks on your pelican as it would still be subject to TSA inspection. If there are other firearms in the pelican, then there would be no reason to lock your pistol in a separate case, and non-TSA locks would be appropriate to secure the pelican.

[colossians323]

meh, almost easier to buy your own plane rather than traveling commercial

[unusedusername]

meh, almost easier to buy your own plane rather than traveling commercial

I agree. Having huge amounts of money is always better then having small amounts of money.

In 2011, there were 224,475 total privately owned aircraft that are registered with the FAA as "General aviation" (meaning not commercial). (source: AOPA)

US population in 2011: 310 million (source: Google)

Max percentage of US population that owned an airplane. (This assumes nobody owns more then 1 airplane, if they do then this number gets smaller)
>>> 224,475.0/310,000,000.0
0.0007241129032258065

As of 2011, a maximum of 0.07% of the population owned an airplane that was registered as general aviation.

[Wallflood]

I think her confusion, which I find reasonable, is that you are locking the handgun in the non TSA-locked metal case, then placing that in the Pelican with non-TSA locks too. Did you have any other firearms in the Pelican case?

When I take my pistol in my checked luggage, I place it in a non-TSA locked metal case BUT my luggage has TSA locks as required per the regulations.

If there were no firearms outside of the metal case but inside of your pelican, I think it would be reasonable for her to expect TSA locks on your pelican as it would still be subject to TSA inspection. If there are other firearms in the pelican, then there would be no reason to lock your pistol in a separate case, and non-TSA locks would be appropriate to secure the pelican.

To be clear it is actually a federal offense to secure firearms with TSA locks. That law only applies to transporting certain antiquities and collectable wines. Looking a firearm in a non-TSA case then locking it in luggage with TSA locks does not prevent workers from stealing your guns. Only locking them with non-TSA locks can achieve that (in principle).

As well, taking guns back out to the car is not a viable option. I for one cannot ethically leave guns in a car left at an airport. This is also not an option for most who use cabs or must travel through multiple locations.

Another reason I hate to fly and drive instead unless unable. For me the only solution (and only correct solution) is to stand up for my rights, know policy, and demand to speak with a supervisor or other.

In this case, another Delta clerk knew the law and regulations stepped in to correct the not only disrespectful, but incorrect in all accounts, clerk who tried to bully me in front of dozens of other passengers.

The moral of the story is stand up to these liberal bullies in all areas. Having a spare set of TSA locks in your luggage for extreme situations might not be a bad idea either. It would actually be legally wrong to force you to use them but in a hostile environment with no recourse it could save a guy from missing his flight.
Peace

[edgerly779]

Plus delta charges for checked bags.

[Wallflood]

Plus delta charges for checked bags.

It adds up quick.

[hermosabeach]

It sucks that you need to print the rules and bring them to the airport when traveling with a firearm

[Wallflood]

It sucks that you need to print the rules and bring them to the airport when traveling with a firearm

Had them in my pocket. Didn't help any with her that's for sure. Despite the intervention of 2 of her peers, printed out law and regulations, and a helpful TSA agent (thanks), she was still arguing based upon what she thought was "right" as I was walking away.

We must collectively stand up for our rights now or face the unchecked momentum of the angry mob.

[OCEquestrian]

To be clear it is actually a federal offense to secure firearms with TSA locks.

You are yet another "sure you are right" but IGNORANT gun owner in this regard...

Here is the actual QUOTE from the TSA website... yes the official TSA website; https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transport...and-ammunition

"Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks."

Looking a firearm in a non-TSA case then locking it in luggage with TSA locks does not prevent workers from stealing your guns. Only locking them with non-TSA locks can achieve that (in principle).

1) Note that the TSE expects and allows your hard pistol case to be locked and INSIDE your normal checked luggage...but it must be a hard secure case. I use a pelican 1150 case that is approx 7"x 9" x 4" .
Again .. from,yes, the TSA website; "Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage."

2) Nothing you do will keep airline employees from stealing your gun if they want to steal it...taking the entire bag if necessary. Using a "gun type external case" for handguns invites that theft. If you are just carrying a handgun, use a secure pistol case INSIDE your regular mundane checked baggage. Obviously traveling with long guns requires they be in a stand alone secure container.. again.. I use a locked (with TSA locks) pelican long case. Again, NEVER a problem in over 20 flights with a long gun.

3) A hard container does not have to describe the piece of baggage itself. I have always flown (well of 100 flights) with a small pelican case just big enough for my handgun and ammo, locked with TSA locks and placed in my normal Tumi hard plastic checked bag or a soft leather grip style bag. NEVER a problem. EVER!

[Whites of Their Eyes]

Greetings All
Flying again out of southern CA the Delta clerk was out of line not to mention disrespectful. I can deal with all that but the hurdle was her demand I have TSA approved locks on the outside of my roller pelican case. This is in fact wrong and against federal law.

I use metal locking gun cases for handguns then lock them inside the pelican case with standard over the counter padlocks. I've done this many times in many airports all across the country. I've never had a problem other than different clerks doing things a little differently from other clerks. It took 2 other clerks as well as a TSA agent to overrule her despite my explaining law to her.

Moral of the story: know laws and regulations when you fly, and stand your ground (while being polite and professional).

Have a great day-

Thanks for sharing your story. I often use stories like this when I teach my Utah CCW classes.

I travel fairly frequently and take my gun anytime it is not international (or NY, NJ, or HI) and never had any major issues. The only issue I had was at Atlanta airport needing to take my bag to TSA, which was about a 15 minute walk each way plus about a 10 minute wait for TSA...

[God Bless America]

Had them in my pocket. Didn't help any with her that's for sure. Despite the intervention of 2 of her peers, printed out law and regulations, and a helpful TSA agent (thanks), she was still arguing based upon what she thought was "right" as I was walking away.

We must collectively stand up for our rights now or face the unchecked momentum of the angry mob.

I have dealt with an airline with regs not available to public. Agent, whose competence I initially doubted, showed me. She was correct.

So there's that.

[Whites of Their Eyes]

You are yet another "sure you are right" but IGNORANT gun owner in this regard...

Here is the actual QUOTE from the TSA website... yes the official TSA website; https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transport...and-ammunition

"Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks."





1) Note that the TSE expects and allows your hard pistol case to be locked and INSIDE your normal checked luggage...but it must be a hard secure case. I use a pelican 1150 case that is approx 7"x 9" x 4" .
Again .. from,yes, the TSA website; "Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage."

2) Nothing you do will keep airline employees from stealing your gun if they want to steal it...taking the entire bag if necessary. Using a "gun type external case" for handguns invites that theft. If you are just carrying a handgun, use a secure pistol case INSIDE your regular mundane checked baggage. Obviously traveling with long guns requires they be in a stand alone secure container.. again.. I use a locked (with TSA locks) pelican long case. Again, NEVER a problem in over 20 flights with a long gun.

3) A hard container does not have to describe the piece of baggage itself. I have always flown (well of 100 flights) with a small pelican case just big enough for my handgun and ammo, locked with TSA locks and placed in my normal Tumi hard plastic checked bag or a soft leather grip style bag. NEVER a problem. EVER!

I won't use a TSA lock on my gun case because it makes it that much easier to open it by airport personnel. I agree that it can be stolen fairly easily if they want to steal it either way. However, I will still make it as difficult as possible.

The OP was wrong that it is against the law to use a TSA lock (thank you for pointing that out), but I think the OP's point still stands. The OP did not need to use a TSA lock as was requested/ordered by airline personnel, and I do not blame them for not wanting to use a TSA approved lock.

Like you, I also put my gun in a hard case and then inside my regular checked baggage. However, I lock the gun case with a regular lock (not-TSA approved) and then lock the suitcase with a TSA approved lock.